Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole"Which ones?" you ask.
No. I ask for which ones.
Can we do it this way? You think of an emotion and I will see if I can point out where God expressed that emotion.
We are created in the image of God. Like the Psalmist wrote:
"He who formed the eye, does He not see?
He who formed the ear, does He not hear?"
Transfer the same principle to our emotions and you have us reflecting what is of God. Of course He is without sin and unrighteousness.
The Bible attributes Jealousy to God. The Bible attributes patience, the running out of patience to God. The Bible attributes love and hate to God. The Bible attributes anger, mercy, longsuffering to God.
There are some instances which I find slightly humorous where God's emotions come through. For example in one place He is so mad with Israel that He tells Moses "Leave me alone". The idea is that He knows that Moses will interceed for the people of God concerning their sins. God wants Moses to leave Him alone this time so He can discipline them.
Then we see God become a man in Jesus Christ. And the gospels show Him as a man express a whole constellation of emotions.
You may rest in the assurance that you are loved by God. No one knows you like God does. Where you blame yourself, perhaps God does not for He knows more facts than you. Where you excuse yourself perhaps God does not. For He knows everything.
No one can do an inside healing job like God. No one can get on the inside of your being for care and healing like Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by jaywillYour capacity for circumlocution is unparalleled.
"Which ones?" you ask.
Can we do it this way? You think of an emotion and I will see if I can point out where God expressed that emotion.
We are created in the image of God. Like the Psalmist wrote:
[b]"He who formed the eye, does He not see?
He who formed the ear, does He not hear?"
Transfer the same principle to our emotio ...[text shortened]... e God. No one can get on the inside of your being for care and healing like Jesus Christ.[/b]
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThere are many emotions expressed by God in the Scriptures.
Your capacity for circumlocution is unparalleled.
I listed some with some comments.
Some of those comments were aimed at bystanders looking in on the dialogue.
In short, I think I gave you a reasonable start at an answer. Did you want a exhaustive list? Is that what you wanted - a discrete ordered list of 1 to N emotions expressed by God?
Originally posted by twhiteheadThat is ridiculous twhitehead.
Anger
Jealousy
Self importance (is this an emotion?)
Anyone who focuses so heavily on wanting to be worshiped clearly has serious emotional issues!
Let's take Anger - Should a just God not be angry with injustice?
Let's take Jealousy - Should a faithful spouse not be jealous over an unfaithful one?
Now Self Importance - If your children strayed from home, got hungry, got sick, got dirty, fell in with the wrong crowd, got tricked and began to think you their father was an enemy, and you sat them down and told them about your special relationship with them - that would be your selfish self importance ?
Now focusing on heavily wanting to be worshippped - Can you explain the instances of Jesus hiding himself from the crowd when they wanted to make Him a king? Is this the behavior of someone heavily wanting to be worshipped?
The worship in the Bible to God is feasting, enjoying and living in the realm of God as a sphere of enjoyment.
Plus the fact the the God of the univese could very easily overwhelm each one of us individually with a powerful and fearsome display. He does not. That would violate your freedom of will to not want Him if you choose not to.
God has done some things in history to convince man of His reality. He does not over whelm you every day. In the last 24 hours you have had perfect freedom to pretty much forget that God even exists. Except for this conversation and a Bible which you probably choose to let collect dust on your shelf how has God imposed His will on you?
Have you not had considerable freedom to live your life with no regard for God if you choose?
You insult God sometimes. Does lightening come down to zap you into line everytime? Seems to me that God allows you a pretty quiet life to go your own way.
You went out of your way to come to this forum to get your licks and accusations in against God.
Maybe it is you who is in demand that He worship you.
That eventually your freedom to live without God has consequences in judgment is not His selfcenteredness. It is merely His responsibility as the Final Authority in the universe over all moral acts. That's just the job of being God that there is a final reckoning.
And He has made gracious provision for you in the atoning death of Christ that the penalty of your desire to live with no regard to God, would not be too heavy for you to bear.
Rather than give thanks for this you turn to accusations and slanders against the charachter of God. You argue morally with the Creator Who gave you the ability to argue morally at all.
So the "God" Who "so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son" has "serious emotional issues" for such great love?"
Perhaps He should not have loved so much as to bear the penalty of your sins in His body on the cross? Perhaps His sacrificial death and resurrection for your forgiveness and eternal life reveal "serious emotional issues?"
Originally posted by jaywillActually I only intended to list Anger and Jealousy as known emotions as given in the Bible not to comment on them.
That is ridiculous twhitehead.
Let's take Anger - Should a just God not be angry with injustice?
Let's take Jealousy - Should a faithful spouse not be jealous over an unfaithful one?
However since you brought it up:
Anger is primarily a symptom of the inability to correct or avoid something you believe to be wrong. If God has a problem with something he created he can only blame himself.
Jealousy - I dont really see the parrallel here. The implication or your statement however is that there are other gods and that God feels a need to be wanted.
Now Self Importance - If your children strayed from home, got hungry, got sick, got dirty, fell in with the wrong crowd, got tricked and began to think you their father was an enemy, and you sat them down and told them about your special relationship with them - that would be your selfish self importance ?
I didnt say that, I said that.
Now focusing on heavily wanting to be worshippped - Can you explain the instances of Jesus hiding himself from the crowd when they wanted to make Him a king? Is this the behavior of someone heavily wanting to be worshipped?
The worship in the Bible to God is feasting, enjoying and living in the realm of God as a sphere of enjoyment.
The old testament is riddled with examples of God demanding to be worshiped.
Look at the famous 'lords prayer'. Doesnt 'halowed be thy name' sound a bit excessive for a supposed creator?
You insult God sometimes. Does lightening come down to zap you into line everytime? Seems to me that God allows you a pretty quiet life to go your own way.
Seems to me that this is evidence that he doesnt exist.
That eventually your freedom to live without God has consequences in judgment is not His selfcenteredness. It is merely His responsibility as the Final Authority in the universe over all moral acts. That's just the job of being God that there is a final reckoning.
Luckily a little logical thought about the concept of the soul makes me realise that so called 'judgemnet' is impossible.
[b]And He has made gracious provision for you in the atoning death of Christ that the penalty of your desire to live with no regard to God, would not be too heavy for you to bear.[/]b
Another bit of Christian theology that looks good a face value but is actually totally illogical.
If everlasting life exists etc then Christ could not die. If Christ was God etc then his death would have no real significance to him.
Sacrifice is really a meaningless concept in this instance as if there was a bill being made for each sin and the law says you got to pay so Jesus steps in and pays with his own cash. But who made the law?
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeIn the classical conception of the eternal, metaphysically simple (i.e. indivisible) God, God does not emote although His actions can seem to us as though they contained emotion.
All of what we do? Some of what we do? None of what we do? Some we do not?
In the more recent conception of an everlasting, suffering God, God has emotions much like we do.
My personal view is somewhere in between. I hold to an eternal, simple God who does emote, although those emotions can be related to our own only analogously.
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Anger is primarily a symptom of the inability to correct or avoid something you believe to be wrong. If God has a problem with something he created he can only blame himself.
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The first man created made a similar argument. He said that it was the woman that God created and gave him that caused him to disobey. The woman then passed the buck on to the serpent. It was the serpent who enticed her to sin. See Genesis 3:8-13.
The serpent didn’t have a leg to stand on and was given no apportunity to make excuse. But from the beginning of humankind the result of man’s free choice to take another way besides God’s way has been blamed by on God. “Well, if you had made us Robots and just pushed the Obey Bottom we would not have chosen another path.”
We have to eventually come to grips with the fact that God created a creation in which his highest creatures have their own will. From a standpoint of neutral they must choose to go along with God or to go the other way. That is not a comment on God’s inability but on man’s freedom of will to choose.
”When a man’s way brings him to ruin, his heart rages against the Lord.”
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Jealousy - I dont really see the parrallel here. The implication or your statement however is that there are other gods and that God feels a need to be wanted.
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In both the Old Testament and the New Testament, God likens His chosen people to a spouse (Isa. 54:6; Jer. 3:1; Ezek. 16:8; Hosea 2:19; 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 5:31-32). It is in this spousal relationship that all the jealousy passages are found. At the moment I cannot think of an exception:
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lf Importance - If your children strayed from home, got hungry, got sick, got dirty, fell in with the wrong crowd, got tricked and began to think you their father was an enemy, and you sat them down and told them about your special relationship with them - that would be your selfish self importance ?
I didnt say that, I said that.
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I think that is essentially your criticism.
God deems it important for us to know where we came from, why we were created, what went wrong with our world, who is infesting and hounding us causing us to sin against Him, how He loved us, how He has made provision for our salvation, and the general foreknowledge of what the final destiny of the world is.
This is akin to a parent comforting and counciling how a deliquent child can get back on the right track. Essentially, God is a great Source of wellbeing. You twist that relationship in your mind to be one of God’s egotism and despotic insistence on man’s subjection.
You haven’t seemed to grasp that for the human race to depart from its Source has been a problem. You didn’t notice a falling from paradise in the early history of the world in Genesis. Man chose to leave the Source of life and blessing. Speaking to Israel God says:
”For My people have commited two evils: They have forsaken Me the fountain of living waters, to hew out for themselves cisterns, broken cisterns, which hold no water” (Jer. 2:12,13)
Generally speaking man has replaced God with things which are ineffective to maintain his most blessed state of existence. The fountain of living water of life, God has been exchanged for broken cisterns which leak and fail to quench our thrist for blessing and life.
To God this is an evil commented against Him but also against ourselves. He views it as appalling (verse 12).
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The old testament is riddled with examples of God demanding to be worshiped.
Look at the famous 'lords prayer'. Doesnt 'halowed be thy name' sound a bit excessive for a supposed creator?
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I consider that the prayer the Lord taught to the disciples. Thus more of “The Disciple’s Prayer.” The Lord’s Prayer I would consider the 17th chapter of John.
However, there is a malignant enemy of God who is an advasary and a slandering opponent. This enemy has attached itself to man in a parasitic / host relationship.
The hallowing of God’s name is a antidote to the leech like slavery which sucks out man’s normal and proper relationship with his Creator. The hallowing of the name of “Our Father who is in heaven” is the deeply needed realization that no one and nothing can replace our unique Source. You should consider it the same as your mother and father teaching you to address them “Dada” and “Moma” rather than any old person who comes into the house. And this “mom” and “dad” calling sticks with most of us our entire lives.
This is their loving training of the children to realize that the parent child relationship is special and not common. It is to be distinguished from other relationships. It does NOT mean that all other relationships are to be disdained. On the contrary. God realizes that we will get along better amongst ourselves if we would all acknowledge Him as the common Father Whose name is to be set aside as holy, uncommon, special, and unique. He alone is our Source.
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You insult God sometimes. Does lightening come down to zap you into line everytime? Seems to me that God allows you a pretty quiet life to go your own way.
Seems to me that this is evidence that he doesnt exist.
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I think the evidence shows the contrary. The source of the universe must be of infinite power. There is good reason to also believe infinite knowledge was involved in its design. Since what our present level of knowledge we deem time and space to have had a beginning in the so-called Big Bang, the source of the universe’s creation must involve forces non spacial, non material, timeless, and self existent.
I can’t see what a non contingent Agent of creation could but an Almighty God. This much does not even require any reading of the Bible. This is called “natural revelation.” But to accompany it we have the record of a Being who displayed such creative power and wisdom and tells us of His creation of the world. We may choose to believe that these are phony stories. But then you have a Person in history who is very difficult to dismiss as a overblown rumor. That is Jesus of Nazareth whose existence has had a cataclysmic impact on human history like no other figure who has ever walked the planet. I think the things He says about the subject demand attention.
But even without the Bible and without the event of one Jesus Christ in human history, the evidence of creation points to an all powerful and all knowing Designer. Without the Bible we just may not know what this Being’s intentions are.
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That eventually your freedom to live without God has consequences in judgment is not His selfcenteredness. It is merely His responsibility as the Final Authority in the universe over all moral acts. That's just the job of being God that there is a final reckoning.
Luckily a little logical thought about the concept of the soul makes me realise that so called 'judgemnet' is impossible.
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If a human court of law can bring you in for a traffic ticket I don’t know why you could assume your soul would be exempt from judgment from a God who is powerful enough to create the universe.
Rather than take comfort that there will be a problem judging my soul, I have considered the extent God has gone through to redeem it. That does not mean free forgiveness. There is no such thing. It means that God has a way that the debt can be paid in full as if I had never owed anything.
In Christ’s redemption God upholds His great love for the sinner but in a way that does not violate His high standard of righteousness. He can coordinate two great aspects of His being in our favor. I think you should consider more this plan of salvation.
At the very least I would consider it as a back up just in case you find that judging not only your soul, but your spirit and physical body too, are child’s play for God.
By the way – the Bible calls judgment God’s “strange act” as if it is strange that He should ever have to judge anyone in the first place. It is strange but necessary to God to have to call man and angels into judgement.
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Another bit of Christian theology that looks good a face value but is actually totally illogical.
If everlasting life exists etc then Christ could not die.
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I never mentioned the term “everlasting life.” But that Christ died and rose from the dead is foundational to my faith.
Why you say this could not happen to Jesus Christ for ANY reason is a mystery to me.
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If Christ was God etc then his death would have no real significance to him.
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Christ was and is God / Man. He is God and Man in one Person.
His being a man made death possible. His being God makes the significance of His death have eternal power and eternal effectiveness and universal significance.
You know the death of an important person like the Prime Minister of England has great significance because of who he or she is.
The death of a God / Man – Jesus Christ also has extensive significnance because of who He is.
Because He was man He could be subject to death. Because of Him being God the blood He shed has eternal and powerful effectiveness to determine redemptive matters for all eternity.
And because of His resurrection He is the Executor of the Will which He enacted in His death – the New Testament. He is ever alive to carry out the bequests enumerated in His last will and testament.
The death and resurrection of the Son of God is the most important event in the universe and throughout all eternity without a doubt.
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Sacrifice is really a meaningless concept in this instance as if there was a bill being made for each ...
Originally posted by lucifershammerRefreshing, and to the point.
In the classical conception of the eternal, metaphysically simple (i.e. indivisible) God, God does not emote although His actions can seem to us as though they contained emotion.
In the more recent conception of an everlasting, suffering God, God has emotions much like we do.
My personal view is somewhere in between. I hold to an eternal, simple God who does emote, although those emotions can be related to our own only analogously.
What do you mean by analogously here? How can we judge whether God's emotions are analogous to ours, as opposed to simly like ours, or not at all llike ours?
Originally posted by jaywillI am still not convinced you are not some sort of complex Eliza machine.
God desires to wrought His style of emotions into our style.
So love becomes agape love.
Our humanity is then uplifted and sanctified from the fall of man. We are conformed to the image of Christ - the God-man.
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeI don't know what an Eliza manchine is.
I am still not convinced you are not some sort of complex Eliza machine.
I do know that in Bible terms our heart is composed of the mind, the emotion, the will, and the conscience. That is our heart.
And the Apostle Paul's prayer for the Christian church was that Christ would make His home in our hearts through faith. That means that God would work and wrought the living Spirit of Jesus Christ into our hearts.
Think of a cup of water with a tea bag placed into it. The tea is flavored by its mingling with the element of tea.
God puts Christ into people to flavor them via their mingling and blending with Christ. His emotions infuse, uplift, saturate, and permeate our emotions.
This is all to conform us to the image of Christ - "that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8:29)
The water is teafied. And the saved person is deified. We are saved to be Christified.