Spirituality
26 Apr 11
26 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterI still kind of like Scott Bidstrup's analysis of what characterizes fundamentalism at bottom. It is marked by a "doctrinal seriousness" that displaces more basic and reasonable concerns. At its base, it involves the overvaluation of doctrinal conformity at the expense of the actual better interests of others and oneself.
Short for fundamentalist. But what is that?
Some one who adheres to the fundamentals of a particular premise or religion?
Is it like an extremist? Extremie...
http://www.bidstrup.com/religion.htm
26 Apr 11
Originally posted by LemonJelloInteresting stuff; I think the term extremism is more accurate though. I believe in the fundamentals of my chosen/faith, but I'm not a 'fundamentalist' as described here.
I still kind of like Scott Bidstrup's analysis of what characterizes fundamentalism at bottom. It is marked by a "doctrinal seriousness" that displaces more basic and reasonable concerns. At its base, it involves the overvaluation of doctrinal conformity at the expense of the actual better interests of others and oneself.
http://www.bidstrup.com/religion.htm
26 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterFor me it applies to anyone for whom the question *could it be true the Bible isn't 100% accurate?* is a non-starter, they tend to accept unquestioningly the Genesis account of our universe (or more comically - *The Talking Snake* theory) and where science and the Bible conflict - the Bible wins everytime. Inspite of my observations thus far, I'll avoid making any other sweeping generalisations at this time.
Short for fundamentalist. But what is that?
Some one who adheres to the fundamentals of a particular premise or religion?
Is it like an extremist? Extremie...
26 Apr 11
Originally posted by AgergIs the person's attitude to the said fundamental point and how that attitude is expressed, more important?
For me it applies to anyone for whom the question *could it be true the Bible isn't 100% accurate?* is a non-starter, they tend to accept unquestioningly the Genesis account of our universe (or more comically - *The Talking Snake* theory) and where science and the Bible conflict - the Bible wins everytime. Inspite of my observations thus far, I'll avoid making any other sweeping generalisations at this time.
26 Apr 11
7 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterI might not be reading your question corroectly, but from my perspective a magnanimous yet condescending delivery of fundamentalist dogma is not superior to a hostile yet frank delivery of the same. Fundamentalism scares me, the one track mindset behind fundamentalist thinking scares me. That we have grown adults in varying degrees of influence/ power genuinely holding the belief that a great battle between the supposed anti-Christ and whatever is looming - that THEY will be the victors - that THEY have been chosen by God scares me. Or that Allah wants its followers kill the infidels scares me. Or that Jesus hates anyone who doesn't conform to a narrow minded view point and the holders of these beliefs feel they have the "God given" right to 'change things for the better' scares me, and so on...
Is the person's attitude to the said fundamental point and how that attitude is expressed, more important?
Oh yeah, fundamentalism scares me.
26 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergGood point; by 'attitude' I was meaning their actions also. Your fear is unfounded from the Christian viewpoint, however I know what you mean there are "fundamentalist" religions that scare me too. I know you will disagree on this, as there are so many people out there who give the Christian faith a bad name in this respect. All I can say is that Jesus said "you shall know them (Christians) by their fruit". There is only one fruit by the way - it's not plural.
I might not be reading your question corroectly, but from my perspective a magnanimous yet condescending delivery of fundamentalist dogma is not superior to a hostile yet frank delivery of the same. Fundamentalism scares me, the one track mindset behind fundamentalist thinking scares me. That we have grown adults in varying degrees of influence/ power genuinel change things for the better' scares me, and so on...
Oh yeah, fundamentalism scares me.
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26 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterA fundie is a person whose foolishly and persistently believes the opposite of what I know to be true.
Short for fundamentalist. But what is that?
Some one who adheres to the fundamentals of a particular premise or religion?
Is it like an extremist? Extremie...
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterCan you explain how "[his] fear is unfounded from the Christian viewpoint" when you acknowledge that "there are so many people out there who give the Christian faith a bad name in this respect" without this being an example of the "no true scotsman" fallacy?
Good point; by 'attitude' I was meaning their actions also. Your fear is unfounded from the Christian viewpoint, however I know what you mean there are "fundamentalist" religions that scare me too. I know you will disagree on this, as there are so many people out there who give the Christian faith a bad name in this respect. All I can say is that Jesu ...[text shortened]... them (Christians) by their fruit". There is only one fruit by the way - it's not plural.
I know you referenced Jesus, but from what I can tell, the following excludes the vast majority of those who call themselves Christians.
Luke 6
43“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by AgergYou mean like these?
Oh yeah, fundamentalism scares me.[/b]
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/producer-behind-12th-imam-video-arrested-for-exposing-film-ties-in-iran/
"Last month CBN news uncovered a startling state sponsored video trumpeting the imminent return of the 12th imam -- a messianic figure who some Muslims believe will lead the armies of Islam to victory over all non-Muslims. Now, CBN has learned that its report has rattled the Iranian regime and led to the arrest of at least one man. Iranian state media reports say the producer of the film was arrested after revealing that Khamenei and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had approved the film."
Yep, they should scare you. I suppose you can blame the coming war in the middle east on fundamentalism, but then, if it were not for that it would be for something else. It is true that sending your troops to die for "God's will" is a formidable mixture if you can get them to buy into it.
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterAn extremist is one that takes things to the limit, maybe even going
Short for fundamentalist. But what is that?
Some one who adheres to the fundamentals of a particular premise or religion?
Is it like an extremist? Extremie...
to far. It's like one that believes he is justified to kill a doctor that performs
abortions because the doctor is killing an unborn baby. Instead he should
put his efforts into getting the law changed that permits the aborting of
the unborn baby. A fundamentalist is an adherent to the basic Christian
beliefs, like inerrancy of the Holy Bible, the Triune God, the virgin birth of
Jesus, the physical resurrection of Jesus the christ, and other biblical
miracles, and salvation by faith in Jesus the Christ. I believe "fundie" is
a derogatory term used for all that believe in the Christian religion by
those that do not believe. But I believe it is derived from fundamentalism.
In the USA we are told we have freedom of religion, which is partly true;
but in many cases it has become freedom from religion.
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsWould you say that Jesus was a fundie extremist? What about his disciples who gave their lives for their message? How about Abraham who was going to sacrifice his son to God?
An extremist is one that takes things to the limit, maybe even going
to far. It's like one that believes he is justified to kill a doctor that performs
abortions because the doctor is killing an unborn baby. Instead he should
put his efforts into getting the law changed that permits the aborting of
the unborn baby. A fundamentalist is an adherent to t ...[text shortened]... om of religion, which is partly true;
but in many cases it has become freedom from religion.
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by whodeyNo, I have never called anyone a "fundie", because I believe in
Would you say that Jesus was a fundie extremist? What about his disciples who gave their lives for their message? How about Abraham who was going to sacrifice his son to God?
Christianity. The ones that use that term do not believe in the
fundamental Christian beliefs.
27 Apr 11
5 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterI don't think it is the case that there are "fundamentalist religions" as much as there are fundamentalist followers of such religions. It doesn't surprise me that from your perspective my fear is unfounded, I mean...what other position could you hold on this matter? You're hardly going to share my view that
Good point; by 'attitude' I was meaning their actions also. Your fear is unfounded from the Christian viewpoint, however I know what you mean there are "fundamentalist" religions that scare me too. I know you will disagree on this, as there are so many people out there who give the Christian faith a bad name in this respect. All I can say is that Jesu them (Christians) by their fruit". There is only one fruit by the way - it's not plural.
a) Your (and anyone elses) literal interpretation of the Bible is irrational.
b) It is inherently divisive, and indeed, it fosters in its more 'gifted' subscribers a deep and unshakable hostility towards those who fail to share their belief, or practices which stand in opposition to their faith. Indeed it's not simply the case these people harmlessly believe in some higher power or a god; they believe that their Bible, out of many other holy books is the exclusive source of truth, and that their particular interpretation of it is *the best* and perhaps provides them with a wholly encompassing picture of what "God" is, and what "God" wants. Anyone else is preaching falsity, or are heathens, or spreading the lies of Satan, etc...
c) It inspires prejudice and imposes an artificial constraint upon the freedom and potential of people based on their gender, sexuality, race, and so on...; moreover it serves directly as a launchpad for otherwise good-natured and well grounded people to commit attrocities, or otherwise degrade (to wildly varying extents) the quality of life of others.
Furthermore, ToO has addressed the point you made that: "so many people out there who give the Christian faith a bad name in this respect" along the same lines as I would have done.