What do you think they are talking about?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm sorry we don't agree, I think this is no different than the one who sold his birthright for
a bowl of food, when he wanted to repent, it wasn't granted to him even though he
sought it will tears. I do believe the devil uses these verses to cast fear in us when we sin,
that we are accused of falling away and I reject that. This is a without a doubt wa ...[text shortened]... doesn't mean you lose out of God, but denying Him
and walking away, yes I do believe that does.

I'm sorry too because that would mean that the price Jesus paid for atonement is lost.
The guarantee in Ephesians is lost. God has bent over backwards reassuring his people of the permanence of salvation over and over, but many people cannot grasp this concept.
There are far too many Christians who are still under bondage wanting to earn salvation or living in fear of keeping their salvation. It is an old and reliable trick of the adversary.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
He 6:6 “and then have fallen away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.” This verse reflects the permanence of salvation that is spoken of in so many other places in the Epistles. This verse is not about losing salvation and not being able to regain it, although that is what many people think.[b] If this verse were about losing one’s salvat ...[text shortened]... that God would tell us that our salvation is permanent.

http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/

Your faith is in scholars?

Christ, Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude, all said the same thing. Evildoers will be destroyed, Christian saints who live a live of sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Your faith is about who you trust and you trust the doctrine of men. Sad.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I'm sorry too because that would mean that the price Jesus paid for atonement is lost.
The guarantee in Ephesians is lost. God has bent over backwards reassuring his people of the permanence of salvation over and over, but many people cannot grasp this concept.
There are far too many Christians who are still under bondage wanting to earn salvation or living in fear of keeping their salvation. It is an old and reliable trick of the adversary.

What nonsense? The price Jesus paid is not for man to continue in sin.
No guarantee is lost. God has no guarantee for evildoers.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I'm sorry too because that would mean that the price Jesus paid for atonement is lost.
The guarantee in Ephesians is lost. God has bent over backwards reassuring his people of the permanence of salvation over and over, but many people cannot grasp this concept.
There are far too many Christians who are still under bondage wanting to earn salvation or living in fear of keeping their salvation. It is an old and reliable trick of the adversary.

No, it does not mean by any means that the price Jesus paid was lost, it means that we
cannot take such a high gift and throw it back into God's face. Jesus came to save the
lost, and He is, there are many that will not be saved, not because Jesus didn't pay the
price for them, because they rejected God and that is what these are doing too. The
difference is between them and other sinners while living the other sinners can still answer
God's call and repent turning to God. Those while alive here are doomed to Hell and there
is no longer anything that they can say or do that will change that.

Someone who thinks they have to earn their salvation doesn't get it that means Jesus
dying for them wasn't enough. He paid our debt, we cannot add to that, we can only turn
our lives over to Him and obey Him, and what does He want us to do, CARE about each
other! It isn't a hard thing, if we keep in mind it is because of Him we should care about
each other, if we care/love each other due to our likes and dislikes than it does become
hard. If we care about others because Jesus died for them, it is easier, it is also easier
to forgive another for the same reason, Jesus died to forgive them and us, so we should
forgive.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, it does not mean by any means that the price Jesus paid was lost, it means that we
cannot take such a high gift and throw it back into God's face. Jesus came to save the
lost, and He is, there are many that will not be saved, not because Jesus didn't pay the
price for them, because they rejected God and that is what these are doing too. The
differen ...[text shortened]... o forgive another for the same reason, Jesus died to forgive them and us, so we should
forgive.

You are getting off track....
we need to be clear about what it is saying, because it would be saying that if a saved person sins and loses his salvation, he cannot be forgiven and be saved again because that is “impossible.”

Is this what you believe?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are getting off track....
[b] we need to be clear about what it is saying, because it would be saying that if a saved person sins and loses his salvation, he cannot be forgiven and be saved again because that is “impossible.”

Is this what you believe?[/b]

Yes, I'm saying if he sins he can repent, that is different than walking away from the Lord.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, I'm saying if he sins he can repent, that is different than walking away from the Lord.

That is not what the verse says.

Heb 6:4-6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV


It sounds like these are born again people. They can no longer repent and be saved again. It says it is impossible. Either it means what it says or it does not. Which is it?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That is not what the verse says.

[b]Heb 6:4-6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for them ...[text shortened]... saved again. It says it is impossible. Either it means what it says or it does not. Which is it?

What I'm saying, if they walk away from the Lord they have nothing, if it is a sin they can
repent, there is a difference. Sinning can be forgiven, there are plenty of scriptures to show
this, just as there are scriptures that talk about those that pull back too.

Originally posted by KellyJay
What I'm saying, if they walk away from the Lord they have nothing, if it is a sin they can
repent, there is a difference. Sinning can be forgiven, there are plenty of scriptures to show
this, just as there are scriptures that talk about those that pull back too.

I know what you are saying and am well aware of what other verses say. But why does it say here it is impossible?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I know what you are saying and am well aware of what other verses say. But why does it say here it is impossible?

In light of everything we have talked about you still don't know?

Originally posted by KellyJay
In light of everything we have talked about you still don't know?

I know. But your answer does not resolve this verse.
I have to go, will return later.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I know. But your answer does not resolve this verse.
I have to go, will return later.

Resolve what? There is a difference between sinning and turning one's back on Jesus?
What does Jesus say about those that deny Him before men?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Resolve what? There is a difference between sinning and turning one's back on Jesus?
What does Jesus say about those that deny Him before men?

So if a born again Christian turns from Jesus he loses his salvation?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
So if a born again Christian turns from Jesus he loses his salvation?

Yes. Its what the bible says.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
So if a born again Christian turns from Jesus he loses his salvation?

If a born again Christian rejects Christ do you believe that they are now denying Christ before man? Do you think that a born again Christian rejects God that they are doing that against what the Holy Spirit is warning them against? Do you think that they care about Jesus being Lord, or that they are trampling Jesus under foot? You think anyone who treats Jesus with such contempt can remain in the vine, or is Jesus bound to justify their evil desires against all they knew to be true?

Do not treat this as someone whose fighting their sinful nature to serve God and is struggling to overcome something in their lives.