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18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOriginally posted by robbie carrobie
no, you will never take me alive! gluttony is a a lack or lapse to a moral precept, that being self control. if you can construct an argument, which illustrates that indeed, persons who are overweight are overweight as a result of moral abandonment, then i can agree with your statement. As it stands persons are overweight, not because of a lapse in morality, simply through a lifestyle that is not conducive to their health.
gluttony is a a lack or lapse to a moral precept, that being self control.
Isn't it a lapse of self control regarding consumption of food?
Do you deny that such a lack of self control leading to excessive consumption can lead to obesity?
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by knightmeisterIt's remarkable how difficult it is for you to understand a point. The point being that your latest is just another in a very long line of irrational thought from you: "Two half-truths equals a whole truth...there is no word in Hebrew for sin in general...Jesus explicitly stated something because it is implied..." Each time an idiotic thought pops into your head, you're so sure you've come across something that contradicts what Jesus explicitly states. You become obsessed to the point of responding to almost every post I make with your latest idiotic idea for months at a time. So now you have a new idiotic idea. So what?
It only sounds idiotic to you because you seem to lack the ability to make sense of more complex logical points.
Why do you take things so literally? Of course I know that technically to be explicit means not to imply something , but so what? Just because I have an individual way of describing things doesn’t invalidate the point. Are you so dim th ...[text shortened]... confused. Now I don't know whether to find you distasteful or pity your lack of understanding.
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by Lord SharkNo i do not deny it, in fact, it seems perfectly reasonable that such shall be the case although it may be, and we must be careful, that other factors are involved. We cannot state that obesity is exclusively the result of a lack of self control, although it may well be, there may be other factors involved as well. However it seems apparent to me, that at a fundamental level gluttony occurs, regardless of what form it takes, through a lack of self control.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
[b]gluttony is a a lack or lapse to a moral precept, that being self control.
Isn't it a lapse of self control regarding consumption of food?
Do you deny that such a lack of self control leading to excessive consumption can lead to obesity?[/b]
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18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou seem to have reversed the logic there.
it seems to me to be a moral failing, i therefore define it as greed! and yes your definition was reasonable, but you must , well not must, but anyway, think that skinny people can also be guilty of gluttony, thus it seemed to me to be erroneous to try to establish a weight ratio type of quantitative based definition.
Let's agree on your definition of gluttony, as a moral failure leading to greedy over consumption of food via lack of self control.
Then of course a skinny person can be a glutton. But that isn't the issue. The issue is that an obese person is somebody who has consumed an amount of food such that they have converted more of it to stored energy than they burned. That's just the principle of conservation of energy and matter.
So being clinically obese might be a reliable (if not perfect) diagnostic indicator that somebody has been guilty of gluttony.
So then the question is, why don't you berate them for their sins just as much as homosexuals? Personal prejudice?
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by Lord Sharkno, its much much harder to evaluate gluttony as it is for say alcohol abuse, where the effects are clearly apparent. Also as i have stated obesity is not exclusively due to gluttony, all i have stated is that it may be. There are many other factors already mentioned. The problem that you have created for yourselves is that you have linked gluttony exclusively with weight and over eating, this is not the case. You need to broaden your minds! ha ha!
You seem to have reversed the logic there.
Let's agree on your definition of gluttony, as a moral failure leading to greedy over consumption of food via lack of self control.
Then of course a skinny person can be a glutton. But that isn't the issue. The issue is that an obese person is somebody who has consumed an amount of food such that they have ...[text shortened]... s, why don't you berate them for their sins just as much as homosexuals? Personal prejudice?
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18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOriginally posted by robbie carrobie
no, its much much harder to evaluate gluttony as it is for say alcohol abuse, where the effects are clearly apparent. Also as i have stated obesity is not exclusively due to gluttony, all i have stated is that it may be. There are many other factors already mentioned. The problem that you have created for yourselves is that you have linked glutton ...[text shortened]... sively with weight and over eating, this is not the case. You need to broaden your minds! ha ha!
I think you are being a bit soft on the obese, all of whom are guilty of eating more than they've burned. The fact that a tiny minority might have a medical condition to offer in mitigation isn't enough for you to remain silent in the face of the sins of the majority of very fat people, whilst having a go at gays. That's just moral inconsistency fuelled by your particular prejudice, isn't it?
18 Jan 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Lord Sharkno you are simplifying the argument in order to establish your point, it is not that simple. if someone practices homosexulaity then it is apparent, they fess up or someone sees them with their partner, whatever, if someone consistently over indulges in consumption of food, determining the point at which an individual becomes a confirmed glutton is much harder because it cannot be determined simply by outward appearance, we have already etsablish that skinnies can also be gluttons, we have already established that there may be hereditary factors, eating disorders, this is further compounded that metabolism differs from person to person, therefore obesity may be a physical condition, while gluttony is an attitude of the mind. To determine at what point one an individual becomes a glutton is very very difficult, and great care would need to be exercised, this is not so with homosexuality and alcohol abuse, where the matter is much more cut and dry. to try to compare the two is practically impossible due to the different natures of the sins. if you wish to construe that as inconsistent, well, perhaps you have a better idea?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think you are being a bit soft on the obese, all of whom are guilty of eating more than they've burned. The fact that a tiny minority might have a medical condition to offer in mitigation isn't enough for you to remain silent in the face of the sins of the majority of very fat people, whilst having a go at gays. That's just moral inconsistency fuelled by your particular prejudice, isn't it?
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRob this is real simple.
no you are simplifying the argument in order to establish your point, it is not that simple. if someone practices homosexulaity then it is apparent, they fess up or someone sees them with their partner, whatever, if someone consistently over indulges in consumption of food, determining the point at which an individual becomes a confirmed glutton is ...[text shortened]... f the sins. if you wish to construe that as inconsistent, well, perhaps you have a better idea?
If someone consistently eats too many calories they will put on weight and become fat. It's as simple as that. There's this myth within popular culture that it's not really their fault, it's their genes, glands, metabolism, water problem, etc etc. People make up these nice little excuses so that they don't have to face the painfully obvious truth that it is their fault because they eat too much food and live an unhealthy lifestyle. In short, they don't like to take respobsibility for their own actions. And your classic dancing round the issue, 'well it may not be their problem' attitude is part of the problem.
As i've outlined before only 1 in 100 people are obese because of medical issues, the rest got that way of their own accord. In short they eat too much food and are gluttonous, it really is as simple as that.
I take your point about skinny people being gluttonous, i understand what you're saying. Skinny people can be gluttonous from time to time and nobody would know. But people who are overweight/fat and have no medical condition have been gluttonous regularly.
To determine at what point one an individual becomes a glutton is very very difficult, and great care would need to be exercised
No it's not. How about they are obese and have no underlying medical condition? That would be a start.
18 Jan 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper KnobSpot on.
Rob this is real simple.
If someone consistently eats too many calories they will put on weight and become fat. It's as simple as that. There's this myth within popular culture that it's not really their fault, it's their genes, glands, metabolism, water problem, etc etc. People make up these nice little excuses so that they don't have to face the pa about they are obese and have no underlying medical condition? That would be a start.
Also, note what RC said here:
"if someone practices homosexulaity then it is apparent, they fess up or someone sees them with their partner..."
RC seems to have no problem with judging homosexuals purely on appearance. Yet another example of his clear hypocrisy.
The reason bigots remain bigots is because they are so resistant to reason.
18 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnehow far have you got with your get Bent Larsen in four easy lessons yet?
Spot on.
Also, note what RC said here:
"if someone practices homosexulaity then it is apparent, they fess up or [b]someone sees them with their partner..."
RC seems to have no problem with judging homosexuals purely on appearance. Yet another example of his clear hypocrisy.
The reason bigots remain bigots is because they are so resistant to reason.[/b]
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by Proper Knobits not entirely the same, being overweight is not gluttony. Gluttony is binging, overindulgence to excess, it may or may not be physically apparent, why you cannot see that i do not know? Also it may not necessarily be the amount of food that one eats, but the type of food that causes one to be over weight, therefore your attempt to make gluttony synonymous with being over weight is a nonsense. Furthermore hormones play a great part as well, as do those who are under medication, its not a black and white nor as simple as you make out, this is not classic dancing around the issue, its simply a statement of fact dear Noobster. Gluttony is a state of mind, not a physicality.
Rob this is real simple.
If someone consistently eats too many calories they will put on weight and become fat. It's as simple as that. There's this myth within popular culture that it's not really their fault, it's their genes, glands, metabolism, water problem, etc etc. People make up these nice little excuses so that they don't have to face the pa ...[text shortened]... about they are obese and have no underlying medical condition? That would be a start.