Torture?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
But I still don't hear the voices of those who claim to monopolize morality calling for prosecutions and that people be held accountable.

I am not sure who claims to monopolize morality, but my understanding was that the torture of terrorist suspects was sanctioned by the Bush administration, and prosecuting a president is no easy task. Certainly prosecuting anyone on the basis of 'morality' will get you nowhere. You first have to show that it is against the constitution or against the law.

The law as written forbids torture. There nothing further to show. Why are not ALL religious people calling for the prosecution of those responsible?

War crimes will be prosecuted, war criminals will be punished and it will be no defense to say, “I was just following orders.” - George W. Bush

Originally posted by TerrierJack
The law as written forbids torture. There nothing further to show. Why are not ALL religious people calling for the prosecution of those responsible?

War crimes will be prosecuted, war criminals will be punished and it will be no defense to say, “I was just following orders.” - George W. Bush

i cannot answer for all religious persons, but it may interest you to note , that Christ himself was completely A-political. When on trial for his life before Pontious Pilate, he was asked again and again if he was a king, for the charge against him was sedition, he constantly stated to Pilate that his Kingdom was no part of the world, in other words, his interest was in Theocracy, the establishment of Gods Kingdom, not the political issues of his day!

So Christ approved of torture? Well, that answers my question. It confirms once again that if your principles are derived from an authority that you just make-up in your head then there is no limit to the atrocities that you can sanction.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
The law as written forbids torture. There nothing further to show. Why are not ALL religious people calling for the prosecution of those responsible?

If it was illegal then all citizens should be pushing for it to be prosecuted regardless of their religion. I am not sure that being religious requires one to uphold the law - certainly Jesus seems to have had no problem with breaking the law if he thought it was wrong.
The law as written may forbid torture but how is torture defined in said law? Is the definitions up for grabs? If the definition changes can one prosecute retroactively?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
So Christ approved of torture? Well, that answers my question. It confirms once again that if your principles are derived from an authority that you just make-up in your head then there is no limit to the atrocities that you can sanction.

is this with reference to my post? if it is then ill tell you whats torture, having to read your misinformed and incredulously ill concieved words. where does it state that Christ 'approved of torture'? did he approve of it when he was being tortured? no ? then what the heck are you talking about? i thought that i made it quite plain, we are Christians, we have no interest in the political agenda of this world, yes there is injustice, yes there are unspeakable horrors, yes there is corruption, we ourselves have experienced it, to us Gods Kingdom is a reality, perhaps you can cite the principles that have led us to sanction atrocities.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i thought that i made it quite plain, we are Christians, we have no interest in the political agenda of this world, yes there is injustice, yes there are unspeakable horrors, yes there is corruption, we ourselves have experienced it, to us Gods Kingdom is a reality, perhaps you can cite the principles that have led us to sanction atrocities.

Jesus himself did not come to get involved directly in politics -- but that doesn't mean that Christians weren't meant to get involved in politics or other worldly affairs.

for Jesus does say regarding the Sheep on Judgment Day -- "for I was hungry and gave me something to eat - I was thirsty and you gave me drink - I was a stranger and you invited me in - naked and you clothed me - I was sick and you visited me - I was in prison and you came to me" -- as opposed to the Goats that failed to do these things

I believe that this concept would apply to us not just as individuals but also regarding the political decisions we make -- are we supporting policies that will help people in need, or are we ignoring or punishing them instead. Or are we concerned only with our own selfish agendas. There is room here for both conservatives and liberals to debate over how best to achieve these ends - and no political party should presume to be the Lord's "chosen party"

as for torture -- when Peter cuts off the soldier's ear, Jesus warns that "those who take up by the sword shall perish by the sword" -- so similarly, those who take up by torture will perish by torture -- if we make it our policy to use torture, you can be sure that others will use torture against us and our allies

Christianity and Islam have long gone hand in hand with torture. What else is the concept of Hell?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
Why are so many religious people in America willing to accept torture as a policy? Isn't this a spiritual issue? Are torturers going to heaven? (If so, I'll gladly go to hell.)

Because religion attracts some people who cradle a mindset of extremism. What's new.

I don't think you should go to hell just because of that you will probably find more torturers in hell than in heaven, but in hell they actually torture you.

Originally posted by daniel58
I don't think you should go to hell just because of that you will probably find more torturers in hell than in heaven, but in hell they actually torture you.

..and the slow psycological torture inflicted on me by another..christian? is it?
O ' the agony.
p.s. wouldn't you grow accustomed to the pain in hell?

Originally posted by daniel58
I don't think you should go to hell just because of that you will probably find more torturers in hell than in heaven, but in hell they actually torture you.

In fact, I think I am in hell.
I cant remember getting here, but nevertheless , I am here.
It is a woeful , dispicable position to be in but...Hell!🙂
Can anyone 'save' me?
I asked Jesus. He said he was tied up and said I would be fine on my own.
...gasp...

Originally posted by RBHILL
Well the word of God says to love your enemy.

So instead of torturing muslim terrorist we could teach them about Jesus and his love for them. That he wants to save them from the wrath of God.

You can't brainwash those who are already brainwashed.

Originally posted by daniel58
I don't think you should go to hell just because of that you will probably find more torturers in hell than in heaven, but in hell they actually torture you.

talk from personal experience?

It is always the same with these people: Complain about injustice in the world and they'll tell you to wait for your death to find justice. Ask them whether waiting for death might preclude justice being achieved before death and they'll say you're not good enough for justice. Ask them how to become good enough and they'll tell you to just blindly accept their teaching. Ask them to prove their teaching by its effects in the world and they'll tell you to wait until death.

They are obviously obsessed with their own death and the personal consequences and not much concerned about the rest of us. At this stage in my life I'm not very concerned with my own inevitable death and decay. I am much more concerned with my children and their children. If honestly calling for justice in this world leads to hell then hell sounds a far better place than the greedy self-absorbed heaven these empty human shells hope to inhabit.