Tone of meaning...

Originally posted by googlefudge
Facepalm.


Atheism is not a belief system, this doesn't mean atheists have no beliefs, it just means they don't believe in god.

How hard is this to grasp? seriously.

Very hard for an idiot.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Apparently you do not understand the difference between God and a christian god.

I dont feel the need to (constantly) declare my belief for God. I see this as a lack of faith.
No, I dont understand why christians need to constantly declare their belief in God and Jesus. Frankly, it's very boring and does not add anything. Now if you were a Hare Krsn ...[text shortened]... eally dont think Christ would be all that impressed with what has been done in his name.

You do not see any need for Christians to declare our belief in God.

Do you see our need to say, "HalleluYAH or Praise the Lord"?

In Luke 12: 51-53 it is recored that Jesus said, "Do you suppose that I came
to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on
five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two
against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against
father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law
against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Originally posted by RJHinds
Very hard for an idiot.

Atheism is often associated with naturalism, which is sometimes called materialism. But there can also be people who are sort of naturalistic deists, who believe that a deity created the universe but the deity leaves it alone to operate by the natural laws set up initially. These deists may or may not believe in an afterlife. Some theists don't believe in an afterlife, at least it seems like some of them think if you don't get into heaven, you don't get an afterlife. Some theistic faiths regard as atheists, anyone who is not of their faith. Also, some atheists will not regard an agnostic as an atheist, while other atheists will regard an agnostic as an atheist. So it can be confusing for people who aren't idiots, although if there are any idiots who are atheists, they may be unaware of this.🙂

Originally posted by JS357
Atheism is often associated with naturalism, which is sometimes called materialism. But there can also be people who are sort of naturalistic deists, who believe that a deity created the universe but the deity leaves it alone to operate by the natural laws set up initially. These deists may or may not believe in an afterlife. Some theists don't believe in an a ...[text shortened]... 't idiots, although if there are any idiots who are atheists, they may be unaware of this.🙂

Maybe, I am not an idiot then.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe, I am not an idiot then.

weren't you votes spiritual idiot of the year? have you been impeached already?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
weren't you votes spiritual idiot of the year? have you been impeached already?

I thought Dasa beat me on that one.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I thought Dasa beat me on that one.

no it was landslide victory for you.

Originally posted by JS357
Atheism is often associated with naturalism, which is sometimes called materialism.
But there can also be people who are sort of naturalistic deists, who believe that a deity created the universe but the deity leaves it alone to operate by the natural laws set up initially.
These deists may or may not believe in an afterlife.
Some theists don't believe i 't idiots, although if there are any idiots who are atheists, they may be unaware of this.🙂

While a deist will act like an atheist in that their god concept doesn't have any day to day relevance in that there is no afterlife,
judgement after death, or externally imposed morality.
They still believe in a god, which means they are not under any definition I have come across (excepting the one some theists
have which means anyone who doesn't believe in their particular religion) atheists because they do believe in a god/deity.

Atheism may often be associated with naturalism or materialism, and people who are these things may often be atheists,
but that has no bearing on the meaning of atheism.

The atheist/agnostic thing is more arguable, and is mainly due to the fact that the label atheist gets more scorn and abuse
poured on you from theists, and people have bought into theists claiming (wrongly) that you have to claim to know god
doesn't exist to be an atheist which they understandably find intellectually unjustified.

However none of this has ANY bearing at all whatsoever on whether or not atheism is a belief system.

Atheism as defined by the major atheist organisations (and even as I understand it agerg's definition which requires that
you have thought about it first) simply requires that you don't have a belief in god.
It is interchangeable with non-theist.

It has no beliefs or other tenets, it is not a belief 'system'.

This is the point I was trying to impart to RJHinds, and expressing my incomprehension at how after the number of times I
(not including the times others have also explained this) have explained this explicitly to him that he still professes to not
understand this.

I didn't call him an idiot, he called himself one. I don't buy it as an excuse because I don't believe he can possibly be stupid
enough to not get this and still be able to type.
Wilfully ignorant and ignoring what anyone he disagrees with says to him is more his stripe.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Tone of meaning...


Tone of meaning significantly underscores poster attitude in any forum. Quite often the tone in Red Hot Pawn Spirituality Forum threads seems less than relaxed, even tempered and respectful. Rather it verges on combative as in rancorous and unfocused as in 'straining at a gnat', 'forest and trees', etc, as contrasted with other site forums. Wonder why. Thoughts?

gb[/b]

I think a number of reasons given on here have validity. I was recently one of the guilty ones, on one of the threads you mentioned, where I unreasonably lashed out at Sumydid. I apologized; he apologized too, but I was the one at fault. I also apologized to jaywill for a vicious and unfair lashing out at him; he and I have had many good arguments over the years on here, without personal acrimony. I seldom do that kind of thing, but I blame myself, not the other, when I do—I am responsible for my own actions.

When I do it, it usually means I have lost grounding in my own life and need to get it back. After the last incident, I refrained from posting here for a month. Just back today—but won’t be around too much for other reasons.

I have had many arguments on here that occasionally have gotten sharp, but without getting personal. I have kept many friends on here despite our fundamental disagreements, and occasional frustrations with one another. Others clearly have too: a recent illustration is Freaky and bbarr on Freaky’s “suffering bbarr” thread.

I think that Sumy is right in that we often see these as “high stakes” debates—whether what is seen at stake is our ultimate fate or just how we see (and seek) truth—in the context of often diametrically opposed beliefs. And I think he was saying that that is a reason, not saying that it is an excuse. I do not excuse myself on that score. I hope I don’t get to the point where I do.

You, by the way, I think have been exemplary on here, both in the quality of your posts and your “tone of meaning”.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You do not see any need for Christians to declare our belief in God.

Do you see our need to say, "HalleluYAH or Praise the Lord"?

In Luke 12: 51-53 it is recored that Jesus said, "Do you suppose that I came
to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on
five members in one household will be divided, three against two a ...[text shortened]... t mother, mother-in-law
against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

No, I dont see a need to say "halleluyah" , in any case I would mix it up a bit with a "Golly gosh!!" or a "Wow man!!" thrown in every now and then.

So Jesus came to divide family members? this is the first I've heard of that.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
No, I dont see a need to say "halleluyah" , in any case I would mix it up a bit with a "Golly gosh!!" or a "Wow man!!" thrown in every now and then.

So Jesus came to divide family members? this is the first I've heard of that.

Please ignore. Sorry.

Originally posted by googlefudge
While a deist will act like an atheist in that their god concept doesn't have any day to day relevance in that there is no afterlife,
judgement after death, or externally imposed morality.
They still believe in a god, which means they are not under any definition I have come across (excepting the one some theists
have which means anyone who doesn't ...[text shortened]... ly ignorant and ignoring what anyone he disagrees with says to him is more his stripe.

Now you seem to be saying that I am being dishonest if I don't believe
or understand things as you do because they are too simple not to believe
or understand as you do.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Now you seem to be saying that I am being dishonest if I don't believe
or understand things as you do because they are too simple not to believe
or understand as you do.

Only in regards to the specific case of understanding that atheism is not a belief system.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Only in regards to the specific case of understanding that atheism is not a belief system.

No, it really seems like a belief system to me. It is at least a world view
where God does not exist so that means you have to account for how
everything came into existence without God to create it. So all your
beliefs have to conform to this world view even if it is false. This seems to
me to result in a belief system that is in direct opposition to the Christian
world view in which God does exist. We have God to pray to but you
have no one to pray to. We look forward to a better life after this life, but
you look forward to nothing after this life. And so on and on it goes.

Originally posted by RJHinds
No, it really seems like a belief system to me. It is at least a world view
where God does not exist so that means you have to account for how
everything came into existence without God to create it. So all your
beliefs have to conform to this world view even if it is false. This seems to
me to result in a belief system that is in direct opposition to ...[text shortened]... fe after this life, but
you look forward to nothing after this life. And so on and on it goes.

No, it really seems like a belief system to me. It is at least a world view
where God does not exist so that means you have to account for how
everything came into existence without God to create it.

There is no such "have to" requirement. Atheists can go on about their lives without such an accounting. No belief system is required.

So all your beliefs have to conform to this world view even if it is false.

All kinds of beliefs are possible in atheism, except by definition, belief in deity.

This seems to me to result in a belief system that is in direct opposition to the Christian
world view in which God does exist. We have God to pray to but you
have no one to pray to. We look forward to a better life after this life, but
you look forward to nothing after this life. And so on and on it goes.

Believe it or not, and this message goes to theist and atheist alike, atheism does not require looking forward to nothing after this life. See the above answer, that all sorts of beliefs are possible, except, by definition, belief in deity.

GET IT? EVERYONE?