Originally posted by rwingett
Belief or disbelief in god will shape our future actions and attitudes, but it plays a very limited role in shaping the conditions of our future.

Really? How can it not shape the conditions of our future? For example, if my morality is formed by the percieved authority of a higher power then I will live my life accordingly. Not only that, we tend to evangalize our morality to others whether we realize it or not. If we think something is "right" we will stand firm in our belief and lobby for what is "right" within a given society. Otherwise we would live without convictions of any kind and this simply does not happen.

Originally posted by whodey
Really? How can it not shape the conditions of our future? For example, if my morality is formed by the percieved authority of a higher power then I will live my life accordingly. Not only that, we tend to evangalize our morality to others whether we realize it or not. If we think something is "right" we will stand firm in our belief and lobby for what is ...[text shortened]... y. Otherwise we would live without convictions of any kind and this simply does not happen.

I was only partially talking about the human conditions. Mostly I was talking about the physical conditions. Gravity will remain the same regardless of whether we believe in god or not. As for the human conditions, my own personal beliefs will have very little effect on future generations. I've been arguing on these forums for six years now to little effect. The combined beliefs of an entire civilization, on the other hand, obviously will have more impact.

Originally posted by rwingett
I was only partially talking about the human conditions. Mostly I was talking about the physical conditions. Gravity will remain the same regardless of whether we believe in god or not. As for the human conditions, my own personal beliefs will have very little effect on future generations. I've been arguing on these forums for six years now to little effect ...[text shortened]... combined beliefs of an entire civilization, on the other hand, obviously will have more impact.

Thinking that your personal beliefs will have very little effects on future generations is quite an assumption, however, I would disagree. We are shaped by the people around us and people we love to a great degree. I don't think we give enough credit to the extent that we influence those around us. For example, just look at Christ. He was born a carpenters son in Timbuktoo and worldy speaking amounted to nothing. Yet he arguably became the most influential human being in the history of the world. I think our impact in this world iin large part stems mainly from how far we veer from the status quo. I suppose if you lived your life just going with the flow and not challenging yourself or others around you then you would have less impact than someone who decided to swim upstream, so to speak.

As far as our beliefs influencing the laws of the physical world I would say yes and no. For example, Christ supposidly went around healing people of illnesses and then telling them that their faith had saved them. It is a curious statement to say the least. On the one hand, we have no power to heal ourselves but on the other hand it seems we may be able to tap into a higher power that has such authority due to nothing more than our faith. Crazy huh?

Originally posted by rwingett
Belief or disbelief in god will shape our future actions and attitudes, but it plays a very limited role in shaping the conditions of our future.

How would you know? To me if it shapes your life and how you view
all things you find yourself in, it will in deed shape the conditions
of your future, it colors how you view it, and your belief will take you
places you might not have gone had you a belief in God.
Kelly

Originally posted by whodey
For example, if my morality is formed by the percieved authority of a higher power then I will live my life accordingly.

You know what? I don't believe in a higher power. But I bet that if we compared the morality you live by to the morality I live by, there might be some tiny differences here and there but overall our moralities would look really, really similar.

We get our morality from our socialization. Sometimes God is the delivery device, sometimes not, but the morality tends to be pretty similar either way: don't kill people, don't be a jerk to people, etc.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
I think that the more accurate our knowledge and understanding of reality becomes the more accurate our belief system becomes.

You seem to be under the assumption that first one grows than the
other, why is that? Why wouldn't they both grow at the same time
making you into the person you are? It seems to me that as soon
as you are confronted with the universe things change or get defined
in you, such as being confronted with a wallet with ID and money in
it, or being struck in the face, or being helped by an enemy in a time
of need. How we respond, how we define what is the right thing to do
not only colors the universe around us, it defines us as well.
Kelly