There is no “eternal son”

@sonship said
@divegeester
Me:

Are you saying that the Son is called Eternal Father but is not going to be eternal ?

A. Yes (?)
B. No (?)
C. Not sure how to answer (?)

You say No.

But "One like the Son of Man" (Rev. 1:13a) says:

[b]"I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever . . ...[text shortened]... eve in the Son who is the First and the Last and from death and resurrection lives forever and ever.

You asked:

Are you saying that the Son is called Eternal Father but is not going to be eternal ?

A. Yes (?)
B. No (?)
C. Not sure how to answer (?)

My reply is “No”
As in “No I’m not saying that.”
Not, No to the specific context of your question.

Yes and no questions as a useful tool but there needs to be only one application for the YES or the NO.

Unlike you and kellyjay, I’m more than happy to continue answering them.

@divegeester

Yes and no questions as a useful tool but there needs to be only one application for the YES or the NO.
Unlike you and kellyjay, I’m more than happy to continue answering them

Save your breath.
I specifically gave you the gracious alternative of answering C. Not sure how to answer.

So save your breath on being unfairly cornered with a binary Yes or No.
I think you should have chosen C. which still leaves room for discussion.

The Son of God (and Son of Man) is eternal and speaks as the eternal Jehovah of hosts.

One like the Son of Man speaks:

"Do not fear; I am the First and the Last . . . and behold, I am living forever and ever." (See Rev. 1:18)

Jehovah of hosts before His incarnation speaks:

"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel,
, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts.
I am the First and I am the Last,
And apart from Me there is no God, (Isaiah 44:6)

How many "the First"/s are there?
How many "the Last"/s are there?

How can there be a First preceeding "the First" ?
How can after "the Last" there be another who is "the Last" ?

What is the difference between the Speaker in Isaiah 43 and He who speaks to the churches in Revelation 1:18 ?

For one, the First and the Last became DEAD and is "the Firstborn of the dead" (Rev. 1:5)

This God-man says "Do not fear; I am the First and the Last and the living One;
and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Rev. 17,18)

Will this God-man EVER put off His resurrected and glorified humanity?
Or will He keep His resurrected and glorified humanity for eternity?

He Who is God incarnated, died, resurrected with a body and ascended as a glorified man will be this glorified man forever. So He is the eternal Son.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Yes and no questions as a useful tool but there needs to be only one application for the YES or the NO.
Unlike you and kellyjay, I’m more than happy to continue answering them

Save your breath.
I specifically gave you the gracious alternative of answering C. Not sure how to answer.

So save your breath on being unfairly c ...[text shortened]... nary Yes or No.
I think you should have chosen C. which still leaves room for discussion.

I didn’t claim anything of the sort, you’re making stuff up again.

@sonship said
The Son of God (and Son of Man) is eternal and speaks as the eternal Jehovah of hosts.

One like the Son of Man speaks:

"Do not fear; I am the First and the Last . . . and behold, I am living forever and ever." (See Rev. 1:18)

Jehovah of hosts before His incarnation speaks:

[b]"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel,
, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hos ...[text shortened]... body and ascended as a glorified man will be this glorified man forever. So He is the eternal Son.

Unfortunately for you and your assertions, there is no mention whatsoever of an “eternal son” anywhere in the bible. 🙂

@divegeester

Fortunately the Son said "I became dead, and behold I am living forever and ever." (See Rev. 1:18)

Having eyes to see they see not.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Fortunately the Son said "I became dead, and behold I am living forever and ever." (See Rev. 1:18)

Having eyes to see they see not.

Sure, he is after all Jehovah incarnate.

@divegeester

On this we completely agree.
Jesus is Jehovah God.

So the Son of God must be the eternal Son. Right?

Which one of the two - the One Who sits upon the throne or the Lamb was all the universe and creatures and angels wrong to worship?

"And I saw, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and of the living creatures and of the elders, and thier number was ten thousand of ten thousands and thousdands and thousands,

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb who has been slain to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing." (Rev. 5:11,12)

Do you think they needed to be updated on the Shema - "Hear O Israel, the Lord is one . . . " ?

The Lamb - the Son of God is universally worshipped WITH He who sits upon the throne (presumably the Father).

"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them, I heard saying,

To Him who sits upon the throne AND TO THE LAMB [sorry] be
the blessing
and the honor
and the glory
and the might FOREVER AND EVER.

And the four living creatures said, Amen, And the elders fell down and worshipped." (See Rev. 5:12-14)

This indicates eternal universal worship to the Father and the Son (the Lamb) forever and ever.

@divegeester said
Like the word “trinity” the phrase “eternal son” does not appear anywhere in the bible.

For the doctrine of the trinity to be correct, Jesus must be an “eternal son”. But Jesus is not an “eternal son” this concept is man made and deeply erroneous.

Jesus as a “son” was born in the flesh. His role as a “son” had a beginning and therefore it has an end. Therefore th ...[text shortened]... ng God who came and dwelt among us.

There is NO “eternal son” and therefore there is no trinity.

That is a meaningless point; there are a lot of words that don't appear in a large
number of Bible translations; nonetheless, we use them to describe things such as
spectrum, gigantic, entropy, asteroid, unification, and on and on. Yet, they are
things we use today they could have. Even back then, those who believed that Jesus
is God didn't have the word Trinity, but that didn't stop them from calling Jesus
God or the Holy Spirit. Simply saying God was enough, but today, in a world where
someone going up for the supreme court cannot even define what a woman is,
it shows you we have a difficult time even with what we can see right in front of us,
let along with someone as complex as God is. Not finding "ignoramus" in the
scriptures doesn't mean we cannot identify one when we read about one.

It is not clear exactly why the Modalist is so vehement to fight for a temporary Son of God.

There is something somehow as a desireable by-product of imagining that "Son" goes away. I may return latter to emphasize though, the Son - forever is a revelation in the Bible impossible to erase.

@sonship said
It is not clear exactly why the Modalist is so vehement to fight for a temporary Son of God.

There is something somehow as a desireable by-product of imagining that "Son" goes away. I may return latter to emphasize though, the Son - forever is a revelation in the Bible impossible to erase.

The real God is scary and should be, but if you can define Him as a loveable kind
that would never hold anyone accountable, well, you are not accountable. The real
God is not safe, He is good, not safe, and that is someone everyone would like to
not think about it; they want the God of love, the non-judging one, who only has
our best interest at heart that would forgive even the unrepentant rapist and
because to do anything else would not be loving.

The God of scriptures judges us in righteousness; there is no sliding scale or grading
on a curve. He is fighting for us, trying to get us to see our sins have cut us off from
Him, He made a way to Him. People like their own ways, not His, because in His
way, we have to admit our faults; while some spend all of their time knowing they
are better than others, they got nothing to worry about, except Jesus is the scale,
not us, we have all sinned.

The great thing about the love of God is He does see us in all of our unrighteousness
and for the life of me, still loves us, knowing all there is He loves us. That love is real
not the kind that says we have to put our best foot forward all of the time, and if we
screw up, we are toast, not the kind that allows evil to reign in our bodies and just
is okay with that but wants to make us holy and righteous as He is, by Him doing
the work required, because we cannot.

@divegeester

I didn’t claim anything of the sort, you’re making stuff up again.

If you think i unfairly misrepresented your attitude, why didn't just choose from the A.B. C. I gave.

You dodged and complained.

Why should I not suspect C. was your choice but you were hesitant to admit it?

Did God say that He would establish David's heir a "son's" throne temporarily or forever?

Did God say the dominion of the Son of Man would be temporary or "an eternal dominion? " (Daniel 7:14)

If you argue that the Son's throne is forever and ever but the Son is NOT forever and ever, that is nonsense and encredible error.

"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus.

He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His father.

And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)

I'm sure the angel Gabriel knew about the Shema.

@divegeester said
When we worship Jesus we are actually worshiping Jehovah. It’s the same person manifested in the flesh.

So Jesus and Jehovah are the same, which means by your own words, every time.
Jehovah was mentioned in the Old Testament; they were referring to Jesus, before
Jesus was born. I agree with that because Jehovah is God, and so is Jesus.

@KellyJay
Thannkyou. And I think you have hit on some characteristics if this unfortunate attitude.

The Son is eternal and THE eternal life.