27 Feb 07
Originally posted by Ian68It advocates switching your brain off. Stupid is cool in church circles - and I don't care which church - they're all the same - blind obedience.
The leaders use their position to manipulate their followers into doing their bidding.
The followers are so blinded by their beliefs that they lose the ability to apply common sense.
You can insert the name of any religion you like but it's still the same.
27 Feb 07
Originally posted by Ian68I would say Buddhism and LaVeyan Satanism are less bad in this respect. Probably because they're not centralised.
The leaders use their position to manipulate their followers into doing their bidding.
The followers are so blinded by their beliefs that they lose the ability to apply common sense.
You can insert the name of any religion you like but it's still the same.
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by Ian68Bottom line the worse thing about religion is 'people', they do all manner of evil things to one another.
The leaders use their position to manipulate their followers into doing their bidding.
The followers are so blinded by their beliefs that they lose the ability to apply common sense.
You can insert the name of any religion you like but it's still the same.
Kelly
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by KellyJayKelly, this has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread, but I've been meaning to ask people like you and dj2becker for a long time now; why is it that you always like to make something so straight-forward into something so complicated with dubious reasoning and arguments.
Bottom line the worse thing about religion is 'people', they do all manner of evil things to one another.
Kelly
This thread is about what's the worst thing about religion; and your answer is that the worst thing is 'people' doing all manner of evil things to each other.
What is the worst thing about Mr. Bean's car?
Example of possible answers:
1. His car is so small that if involved in an accident may cause serious injury or even death to the driver.
2. His car is so small that there is hardly any leg room in it.
3. His car hasn't enough speed and power when going uphill. etc.
But, you would answer:
The worst thing about Mr Bean's car is that the driver is a big bully and likes to intimidate other road users.
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by Ian68
The leaders use their position to manipulate their followers into doing their bidding.
The followers are so blinded by their beliefs that they lose the ability to apply common sense.
You can insert the name of any [religion, political movement, corporation, PTA] you like but it's still the same.
28 Feb 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ckoh1965"Kelly, this has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread, but I've been meaning to ask people like you and dj2becker for a long time now; why is it that you always like to make something so straight-forward into something so complicated with dubious reasoning and arguments. "
Kelly, this has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread, but I've been meaning to ask people like you and dj2becker for a long time now; why is it that you always like to make something so straight-forward into something so complicated with dubious reasoning and arguments.
This thread is about what's the worst thing about religion; and your Mr Bean's car is that the driver is a big bully and likes to intimidate other road users.
You seem to think that something is strait-forward when it is complicated and dubious; that wasn’t hard to figure out! People in religion have everything to do with this lame attempt to paint religion as evil, when inside and outside of religion it is really people that do evil things. Why do you assume religion is more than just a tool to do good or evil in the world? People can and do what they will, using what they can, to get what they want, any way they can. Some will act out of mercy and grace, love and compassion, others not so much. Religion, politics, gang membership, club membership, whatever it takes, within each of those labels are people, who when you paint just religion as evil are really the blame! It isn’t any different than when people blame guns, when they blame drugs, when they blame alcoholic drinks, SUV, political affiliation, anything other than just knowing it is human nature, we are to blame for much of the world’s ills. Blaming religion or anything else is just an attempt to push off of ourselves the evil we do to each other.
Kelly
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by Ian68Actually you're right! Religion only serves to lead people further away from God, and to turn others away from the true and living God.
The leaders use their position to manipulate their followers into doing their bidding.
The followers are so blinded by their beliefs that they lose the ability to apply common sense.
You can insert the name of any religion you like but it's still the same.
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by KellyJayNevertheless, gun control works!
You seem to think that something is strait-forward when it is complicated and dubious; that wasn’t hard to figure out! People in religion have everything to do with this lame attempt to paint religion as evil, when inside and outside of religion it is really people that do evil things. Why do you assume religion is more than just a tool to do good or evil i ...[text shortened]... r anything else is just an attempt to push off of ourselves the evil we do to each other.
Kelly
Availability of guns does increase the number of deaths.
Availability of paper does not.
So although you could say that the reason for someone dying of gunshot wounds is the shooter, the gun is still partly to blame and we can still discuss the demerits of guns. This is not the same as 'painting guns as evil'.
The same applies to religion. It is a tool but it is a specific tool and its availability makes people do certain things which are 'undesirable' that they would not be able to do or would not do if there was no religion.
The availability of guns, alcoholic drinks, SUVs, political parties etc does lead to problems which would not exist if they were not available. Simply saying 'its human nature' is a cop out. It is 'human nature' to smoke cigarettes, but most countries in the world are now discouraging that. So the question is shouldn't we also discourage religion if it has harmful effects?
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo gun contol does not stop people from killing people.
Nevertheless, gun control works!
Availability of guns does increase the number of deaths.
Availability of paper does not.
So although you could say that the reason for someone dying of gunshot wounds is the shooter, the gun is still partly to blame and we can still discuss the demerits of guns. This is not the same as 'painting guns as evil'.
The same ...[text shortened]... at. So the question is shouldn't we also discourage religion if it has harmful effects?
Kelly
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by KellyJayThe harder it is to get guns, the less people get killed by them.
No gun contol does not stop people from killing people.
Kelly
Right now a 12 yo can get one for 20 bucks and start a shooting spree so that needs to be addressed, on that one specific issue. But you cannot deny that the main goal of religions is to increase its own following and the main way to do that is with supernatural threats and promises, which the leaders are fully aware they have no control over, just made up BS but which is very effective in shutting down common sense, deactivating what used to be a decent brain. Thinking individuals are not what these leaders want. They want unthinking devotion and obedience. Try to deny that. How many theologens come up and say, lets argue about whether Jesus represents the godhead?
Or the world was created in 7 days. So Billy Graham gets up on the pulpit and says, we need to have people really think about this: Was Jesus the really the result of immaculate conception? Did Jesus REALLY die on the cross? Yeah, right, you are really going to see arguments like that.....
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by sonhouseNo debate there you take away all guns they will stop killing with guns, but will continue to kill with bombs, knives, rocks, hand to hand, bath tubs, you name it people will use it if they can. Religion is a tool for some people, as cars are a tool, knifes are a tool, what that person with the tool does will make it used for good or evil. It is the heart of people is what we have to worry about.
The harder it is to get guns, the less people get killed by them.
Right now a 12 yo can get one for 20 bucks and start a shooting spree so that needs to be addressed, on that one specific issue. But you cannot deny that the main goal of religions is to increase its own following and the main way to do that is with supernatural threats and promises, which t ...[text shortened]... Jesus REALLY die on the cross? Yeah, right, you are really going to see arguments like that.....
It is the difference between power corrupts those getting power, absolute power will corrupt absolutely those who get it, from power reveals corruption who get it, and absolute power will reveal absolutely when people get it.
Both of those statements about power either revealing corruption, or causing it were first said by other people, I don’t recall their names to give them credit.
Kelly
28 Feb 07
Originally posted by StarrmanI'm part of a religious community, the Roman-Catholic community, which encourages people to educate oneself and to research things.
The worst thing about religion is the propensity to encourage ignorance.
The Encyclical "Faith and Reason":
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html
Please, study it .... I highly recommend it ..... especially to the ignorant, both religious ànd secular ! 🙂