Based on a discussion in a different thread, I am posing this question:
Would the words of Jesus carry any less weight if it were determined that Jesus never even existed? Does the existence of Jesus matter to you in regards to the words and teachings that are 'attributed' to Him?
Originally posted by @chaney3If Jesus is not God, his words would mean as much as yours or mine.
Based on a discussion in a different thread, I am posing this question:
Would the words of Jesus carry any less weight if it were determined that Jesus never even existed? Does the existence of Jesus matter to you in regards to the words and teachings that are 'attributed' to Him?
Originally posted by @chaney3I see your point, but it depends on who Jesus is.
Based on a discussion in a different thread, I am posing this question:
Would the words of Jesus carry any less weight if it were determined that Jesus never even existed? Does the existence of Jesus matter to you in regards to the words and teachings that are 'attributed' to Him?
Originally posted by @divegeesterIf Jesus never existed, then it doesn't matter really who he is.
I see your point, but it depends on who Jesus is.
Originally posted by @wolfgang59Not if he is not God.
So the validity of what Jesus said is dependant on his divinity?
His words have no truth in themselves?
John 6
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
John 14
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
Luke 6
46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 “Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49 “But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou have provided quotes such as "if anyone loves me he will keep My word".
John 6
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
John 14
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; ...[text shortened]... the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.
How is this relevant if Jesus never existed....to love? Or to keep his word?
Originally posted by @chaney3It's the words that are of importance.
You have provided quotes such as "if anyone loves me he will keep My word".
How is this relevant if Jesus never existed....to love? Or to keep his word?
Carefully read through all the passages that I cited. They all say that.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI disagree. All of the things He is saying are in regards to a relationship with Him.
It's the words that are of importance.
Carefully read through all the passages that I cited. They all say that.
As I stated before, if some guy named Bob wrote those things, then the NT is a lie, and the meaning is different, if Jesus never existed.
Originally posted by @chaney3Wise words!
I disagree. All of the things He is saying are in regards to a relationship with Him.
As I stated before, if some guy named Bob wrote those things, then the NT is a lie, and the meaning is different, if Jesus never existed.
Originally posted by @chaney3Read them again. Ultimately it's about the words and the concepts behind the words.
I disagree. All of the things He is saying are in regards to a relationship with Him.
As I stated before, if some guy named Bob wrote those things, then the NT is a lie, and the meaning is different, if Jesus never existed.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI find it hard to believe that if you remove Jesus from the equation, that the words attributed to Him would have the same merit. This would also remove the crucifixion and resurrection.
Read them again. Ultimately it's about the words.