13 Aug 16
Originally posted by divegeesterAhhhh, 'toying coarsely', good one. The very same toying coarsely that prompts your threats of reporting robbie to Kingdom Hall?
You're right; toying coarsely with Carrobie is more interesting than wasting my time with you chaney3.
Is your 'toying coarsely' accepted amongst your Christian friends as well? Sounds like a very liberating form of Christianity you 'say you have'.
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14 Aug 16
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Originally posted by divegeester
Ok this will be interesting.
What are you going to do now, put a spell on me?
I am going to suggest that you love the Triune God already.
You spoke of Jesus praying in Gethsemane. All though you called it meditating, the New Testament says He prayed.
" And going forward a little, He fell on His face and PRAYED ..." (Matt.26:39)
And how He prayed ! Don't you just love the Son for how earnestly He "prayed" ? This is God incarnate who prayed for our salvation at a price that cost Him everything. He would not relent. He would not turn back. It is a personal matter for the transcendent God to be a man and give up Himself for you and I personally.
Paul said the Son of God "Who loved me and gave Himself up for me ..." (Gal. 2:20) .
Only God as a man could be in time and pray desperately that He would not turn back from giving Himself up for YOU because He loved YOU.
" ... and the life which i now live I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
I love Him that He gave Himself up for me. Don't you ?
He loved you and gave Himself up for you in reality.
God as a man can do this.
And look how He "prayed" that nothing would turn Him back from giving Himself up for you.
" And going forward a little, He prayed, saying, Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will." (Matt. 26:39)
After coming to His disciples to see them sleeping rather than praying with Him as He requested, He desperately prayed again that He would be absolute for the will of His Father.
"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit is will but the flesh is weak.
Again, going away a second time, He PRAYED, saying, My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, You will be done.
And coming again, He fuond them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy.
And leaving them, He went away again and PRAYED a third time, saying the same words." (vs. 39-44)
The Gospel of Luke said His sweat came out like great drops of blood in His fighting prayer to resist every urge to spare Himself.
"And an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.
And being in agony He prayed more earnestly, and His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down upon the ground." (Luke 22::43,44)
We have to love such a Son of God Who is the eternal God transcendent over time and space yet too able to love me and pray concerning me and give up His life for me as Paul reveals -
" ... the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
You know the God of Israel said in the Old Testament that He would draw us with the chords of a man (Hosea 11:4).
" I drew them with cords of a man, With bonds of love; ..."
God the infinite draws us with human virtues - "the cords of a man".
His eternal divine characteristics were expressed in human virtues as the cords of a man.
Not only is the One praying so desperately lovable for His utter obedience to save us.
But i go on to suggest that Father to Whom He definitely prayed TO we also should be moved to love.
Cont. below
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14 Aug 16
Not only the Son of God praying so desperately stirs our love. But the Father to Whom He prayed we also are stirred to love.
Jesus made petition and prayers with strong crying to the Father Who was able to save Him out of death.
" This One, in the days of His flesh, having offered up both petitions and supplications with strong crying and tears to Him who was able to save Him out of death and having been heard ecause of His piety; ... (Heb 5:17)
You have to take seriously that Jesus prayed with strong crying and tears TO Someone - to His Father Who was able to save Him, and not from death but OUT of death. That means to resurrect Him from the dead.
A God-man on earth was offering up strong petitions to God the Father Who was able to save Him out of death. The Father was FAITHFUL. The Father was moved to vindicate the Son. The Father was absolute to love the world so that He GAVE what was most precious to Him, His only begotten Son.
I think we have to love not only the absolute Son in His absolute submission to the will of His Father. But we also have to love the absolute Father Who gave for us, for the world His most highly precious Son that we would be saved.
Don't you agree a little ... that we have to love this Divine "We" (John 14:23) of the Father and the Son ? I don't know about you. but i am moved to love both mysterious "Persons" of the divine "We" the obedient praying Son and the absolute and faithful Father who heard His prayers.
The Hebrews passage goes on.
" with strong crying and tears to Him [the Father] Who was able to save Him out of death and being HEARD ... Even though He was a Son, learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
And having been perfected, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation." (See Heb. 5:8,9)
And such a Son is STILL interceding for us to His Father. He is able to save us to the uttermost because He lives forever to intercede His Father for us.
" But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable.
Hence also He is able to save tot he uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Heb. 7:24,25)
Doesn't your heart love the Father and the Son ? Aren't you moved to love this divine 'Us" of the Father and the Son of the ONE God ?
" That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; ... that they may be one even as We are one;
I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me ." (See John 17:21-23)
The mysterious Triune God draws out the love of the believers for the one God.
We cannot explain God. But we surely are moved to love this God who also spoke of "We" and "Us".
Don't you think so Divegeester ?
14 Aug 16
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipHear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one.
Not only the Son of God praying so desperately stirs our love. But the Father to Whom He prayed we also are stirred to love.
Jesus made petition and prayers with strong crying to the Father Who was able to save Him out of death.
[quote] [b] " This One, in the days of His flesh, having offered up both petitions and supplications with strong crying ...[text shortened]... ve this God who also spoke of [b]"We" and "Us".
Don't you think so Divegeester ?[/b]
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Originally posted by divegeesterDo you mean it is odd that I speak of the Son's being worthy of love ?
I'm begining to find you to be rather odd sonship.
Do you mean it is odd that I speak of the Father's being also worthy of love ?
Which of the Three of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit is it "odd" that we should adore ?
The Holy Spirit, for instance, is so adorable because He searches the depths of God on our behalf.
" .. for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God." (1 Cor. 2:10)
Don't you love the Wonderful Holy Spirit because He does a tremendous service for God's people ? He SEARCHES even the depths of God Himself. is it odd that I should love this God searching Holy Spirit ?
Is it odd that I should love the Third of the Trinity for assisting me in prayer ? When I am so very troubled and perplexed i may not know even how to pray. But the faithful Holy Spirit Who even searches the depths of God interceds with groanings which cannot be uttered. And the Father hears and understands His prayer !
" Moreover, in like manner the Spirit also joins in to help us in our weakness, for we do not know for what we should pray as is fitting, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
But He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to God." (Romans 8:26,27)
So don't you just love this Helper ?
So don't you love that He "intercedes for the saints according to God" and God hears Him?
If you do not love the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit yet you say you are a lover of
the one God, that is odd. Don't you think so ??
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Originally posted by divegeester
Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one.
Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one.
Yes. But Christ is speaking to the seven churches. And at the end of each letter He says -
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (Rev. 1:7,11,17,29;3:6,13,22)
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14 Aug 16
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Do you love the Son because He lives forever to intercede for us ?
" But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable.
Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Heb. 7:24,25)
Don't you love the Son, Jesus Christ for His perpetual and eternal interceding on our behalf ? I love Him for this High Priestly service by which He saves us from the guttermost "to the uttermost".
I love also the interceding Holy Spirit who searches the depths of God and prays according to God's purpose for us when we are too perplexed to know even what to ask.
" Moreover, in like manner the Spirit also joins in to help us in our weakness, for we do not know for what we should pray as is fitting, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
But He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to God." (Romans 8:26,27)
Did you ever stop to thank this Helper? Did you ever love the Spirit for helping you in your weakness. Maybe you lack experience. I do not always know for WHAT I should pray. But in calling "Abba Father" and groaning in the Holy Spirit I know He who searches the depths of God is effectively praying. And He, the Holy Spirit is being HEARD.
And of course in all this how can we not love the Father to Whom the Son intercedes and to Whom the Holy Spirit intercedes ? The Father is the Source of all the answering of this divine interceding.
How can the Christian not grow to love the Trinity ?
14 Aug 16
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Originally posted by sonshipNo, I mean unable to process diagreement and completely rejecting simple parsimonious scripture in favour of your incomprehensible exegesis. Behaving in a somewhat bizarre manner; telling me you are going to make me love one of your strange beliefs. That type of odd.
Do you mean it is odd that I speak of the Son's being worthy of love ?
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Originally posted by divegeester
Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one.
Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is one.
And what about the one God speaking to the local churches in the book of Revelation.
Look at Revelation 3:14, 21, and 22. All Three of the Triune God is involved here.
The Son is speaking to the church in the writing of the letter:
"And to the messenger of the church in Laodicea write: These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God." (v.14)
Christ is the AMEN !!. That is the Son of the Three.
Then He promises the overcomers to sit with Him as He sat with His Father on His throne.
" He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overame and sat with My Father on His throne" (v.21)
is this not about the Son and the Father ? He sat with His Father on His Father's throne. The ONE GOD Diviegeester.
The the Holy Spirit as the Third of the Trinity is the one SPEAKING as the Son commands what is to be written.
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (v.22)
And you have no love for the Triune God ?
And you do not just adore the Trinity ?
Can you not see the Trinity - the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit all operating and involved in this wonderful letter ?