26 Sep 12
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsReally really stretching it aren't we?
The Trinity - A jewish theological perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsME1dkIygg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Uc_-trDuJ1g&feature=fvwp
We you there when God spoke those words "Let us". No you weren't. So if you would actually be honest for a minute, you have no idea who he was speaking to do you?
Any idea who this is speaking of?
Proverbs 8:22-23
Good News Translation 22 “The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
26 Sep 12
Originally posted by galveston75When God said "us" in Genesis, I have heard of a couple theories. One is that God is Majestic and referred to Himself as We, like the Queen of England for example sometimes refers to her or her Kingdom as we..
Really really stretching it aren't we?
We you there when God spoke those words "Let us". No you weren't. So if you would actually be honest for a minute, you have no idea who he was speaking to do you?
Any idea who this is speaking of?
Proverbs 8:22-23
Good News Translation 22 “The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.
Another could be angels.
In any event I think what was meant is that God made man in His image, meaning He gave Adam and Eve holy spirit. So it could be angels since they are spirit too.
26 Sep 12
Originally posted by checkbaiterActually it was no doubt Jesus and the angels. Jesus is described as being the "master worker" and was very much there and involved when his Father was creating and when his Father finally created man.
When God said "us" in Genesis, I have heard of a couple theories. One is that God is Majestic and referred to Himself as We, like the Queen of England for example sometimes refers to her or her Kingdom as we..
Another could be angels.
In any event I think what was meant is that God made man in His image, meaning He gave Adam and Eve holy spirit. So it could be angels since they are spirit too.
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
26 Sep 12
Originally posted by galveston75I don't think so, Jesus only existed in God's foreknowledge until the day he was created in Mary. But I will respect your opinion.
Actually it was no doubt Jesus and the angels. Jesus is described as being the "master worker" and was very much there and involved when his Father was creating and when his Father finally created man.
26 Sep 12
Originally posted by checkbaiterThanks for the respect. I wish others here would follow that example.
I don't think so, Jesus only existed in God's foreknowledge until the day he was created in Mary. But I will respect your opinion.
But I'll ask you the same about this scripture: Who is this speaking of?
Proverbs 8:22-23
Good News Translation 22 “The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.
And these scripture are of course speaking of Jesus and even his own words describes his existance before he was born as a human.
John 3:13
Good News Translation (GNT)
13 And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven.”[a]
John 6:38
Good News Translation (GNT)
38 because I have come down from heaven to do not my own will but the will of him who sent me.
John 6:62
Good News Translation (GNT)
62 Suppose, then, that you should see the Son of Man go back up to the place where he was before?
John 8:23
Good News Translation (GNT)
23 Jesus answered, “You belong to this world here below, but I come from above. You are from this world, but I am not from this world.
John 8:58
New King James Version (NKJV)
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Colossians 1:15
New King James Version (NKJV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
27 Sep 12
Originally posted by galveston75Proverbs is speaking of God's wisdom, all the verses you mentioned I have been over many times...
Thanks for the respect. I wish others here would follow that example.
But I'll ask you the same about this scripture: Who is this speaking of?
Proverbs 8:22-23
Good News Translation 22 “The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.
And these ...[text shortened]... mes Version (NKJV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Occasionally, a Trinitarian will use this verse to try to support the Trinity and the pre-existence of Christ by saying that “wisdom” was appointed from eternity, Christ is the “wisdom of God” (1 Cor. 1:24) and, therefore, Christ was from eternity. This position has not found strong support even among Trinitarians, and for good reason. This wisdom in Proverbs was “appointed” (literally, “set up&rdquo😉 by God, and is therefore subordinate to God. Carefully reading the verse and its context shows that wisdom was “brought forth as the first of His works” (v. 22). If this “wisdom” were Christ, then Christ would be the first creation of God, which is an Arian belief and heretical to orthodox Trinitarians. Therefore many of the Church Fathers rejected this verse as supportive of the Trinity, among them such “heavyweights” as Athanasius, Basil, Gregory, Epiphanius and Cyril. We reject it also, but for different reasons. Taking a concept and speaking of it as if it were a person is the figure of speech Personification. Personification often makes it easier to relate to a concept or idea because, as humans, we are familiar with relating to other humans. Personification was common among the Jews, and the wisdom of God is personified in Proverbs. Christ is considered the wisdom of God in Corinthians because of what God accomplishes through him.
Racovian Catechism, pp. 73-75
All these verses are explained here...
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses
27 Sep 12
Originally posted by checkbaiterThanks but maybe I'm missing something with your answer about these verses saying that Jesus did exist before he came to earth as a human.
Proverbs is speaking of God's wisdom, all the verses you mentioned I have been over many times...
[b]Occasionally, a Trinitarian will use this verse to try to support the Trinity and the pre-existence of Christ by saying that “wisdom” was appointed from eternity, Christ is the “wisdom of God” (1 Cor. 1:24) and, therefore, Christ was from eternity. This ...[text shortened]... 73-75
All these verses are explained here...
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses[/b]
Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
27 Sep 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMuslims believe in a different God and a different Jesus just like you do. They can't make sense of the Trinity, and therefore, they also reject it like you do. All false religions reject the Trinity, so that should make Judgement day very easy for the SON of God.
hahaha, next it will be a Muslims guide to the trinity.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!