Spirituality
04 Feb 09
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageOnce upon a time a foggy freezing night Rumi was swirling silently 10cm higher than the ground, keeping his rhythm to the beat of the Hidden Music; finally, just when after a long long long long time he stopped swirling, the Hidden Music crystallized deep in his heart; and his mind gave a figure to his awareness.
What's so silly about despair? Where can I get a blueprint of the 'grand scheme of things' ...
Rumi decoded his knowledge at a glance and wrote down instantly with flying hand the following, begging you to let him give you his life.
This is the blueprinting:
My heart, sit only with those
who know and understand you.
Sit only under a tree
that is full of blossoms.
In the bazaar of herbs and potions
don’t wander aimlessly
find the shop with a potion that is sweet
If you don’t have a measure
people will rob you in no time.
You will take counterfeit coins
thinking they are real.
Don’t fill your bowl with food from
every boiling pot you see.
Not every joke is humorous, so don't search
for meaning where there isn't one.
Not every eye can see,
not every sea is full of pearls.
My heart, sing the song of longing
like nightingale.
The sound of your voice casts a spell
on every stone, on every thorn.
First, lay down your head
then one by one
let go of all distractions.
Embrace the light and let it guide you
beyond the winds of desire.
There you will find a spring and nourished by its see waters
like a tree you will bear fruit forever.-
12 Feb 09
Originally posted by black beetleBy taking comfort that the life after this one will be so very glorious as to have made all this suffering worthwhile.
I visualise Life in my hand as a sword. The Art of Living, as I see it, is to try not to "win". I feel not the need to test my power. I feel not the need to move one step beyond or to move backwards. The Art of Living as I see it, it has to do with my awareness that Myself and the Object are not separated.
So I live my life in order to serve the people ...[text shortened]... that" but I am aware of the nature of "this" and of "that".
Despair
is nothing
😵
12 Feb 09
Originally posted by PinkFloydYou are implying that the comfort in the afterlife is bought with suffering in this one. Is that what you intended? Do you have any justification for such a belief, or is it merely a psychological trick to make yourself feel better?
By taking comfort that the life after this one will be so very glorious as to have made all this suffering worthwhile.
13 Feb 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadActually no--I quite enjoy this life, though there IS suffering involved at times. I simply look forward to the afterkife where all will be joy and contentment and no sufffering and death.
You are implying that the comfort in the afterlife is bought with suffering in this one. Is that what you intended? Do you have any justification for such a belief, or is it merely a psychological trick to make yourself feel better?
14 Feb 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageTears and alcohol.
How d'y'all cope with despair?
(Should anyone with to initiate a parallel discussion on Kierkegaard's text (available: http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=2067 ) go ahead).
When I am ready to drag myself out of it I read books on philosophy/psychology/spiritualism and play music really loud.
This happens every several weeks.
14 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageMy gosh, I FEEL that despair is the sickness, not the cure, wholeheartedly. But I think despair is a necessary part of being human, as is depression on occasion. Only through terrible despair and depression have I grown the most in my life.
How d'y'all cope with despair?
(Should anyone with to initiate a parallel discussion on Kierkegaard's text (available: http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=2067 ) go ahead).
I have yet to understand how one lives joyfully all the time. Buddhism mystifies me in this way. Accepting pain and impermanence completely is impossible for me.
I think this: "torment of despair is precisely this, not to be able to die.." is what I believe to mean to move on from one old self to another and to let that old self die, and Not Willing to Be Oneself; in Despair at Willing to Be Oneself.
Hell, if that makes no sense to anyone, it makes sense to me. I have felt my "self" was a battle against me in the worst of times.
14 Feb 09
Originally posted by SunburntTake heart. Menopause will cure that.
My gosh, I FEEL that despair is the sickness, not the cure, wholeheartedly. But I think despair is a necessary part of being human, as is depression on occasion. Only through terrible despair and depression have I grown the most in my life.
I have yet to understand how one lives joyfully all the time. Buddhism mystifies me in this way. Accepting pain ...[text shortened]... it makes sense to me. I have felt my "self" was a battle against me in the worst of times.
15 Feb 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageBy “grand scheme of things,” I really just mean my living out of my existence, with all the connections that entails, in the face of my impending death.
What's so silly about despair? Where can I get a blueprint of the 'grand scheme of things' ...
I took your question in the OP to be a personal one, and my answer is personal; I do not intend any psychological generalizations. But I was perhaps not clear.
If one recognizes that one is in despair (which seems implied by your question), then at least part of one’s consciousness is detached from the despair enough to observe it. In that gap of detachment, I deem continuing despair to be silly in the light of my impending death—and even in the light of such simple things as starting the fire on this cold morning, making coffee, watching the sun come up, etc.
Since I have the ability to drop the despair in favor of another emotional state, I do. I do not indulge in examining justifications (or excuses) for continuing despair. I do not cope; I just “change my mind”. This is a learned ability, and required some undoing of early and long-reinforced conditioning, programming—and “pavloved” beliefs about the impossibility of exercising power of choice when such emotions arise.
I do this with other emotions as well, as seems appropriate. I really am not confronted with despair or depression, except, perhaps, rarely (though I have in the past). The opposite of despair—when faced with conditions that one cannot change (hence the despair)—is perhaps serenity, or equanimity. The first can rob one of the ability to handle what one can handle, to change what one can change; the second (serenity or equanimity) allows one to carry on. That is my experience, anyway.
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Re amor fati: That’s a bit bolder. I suggest watching the Harold Ramos film “Groundhog Day” (with Bill Murray). Note the point at which there is a sufficient “gap of detachment” for the Murray character to really observe and assess his condition (eternal recurrence) and make a decision away from his previous panic, despair and acute nihilism. The lesson is there. (Note that he abandons hope as well as despair.)
15 Feb 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageDespair is the inevitable conclusion any self-conscious person will come to when faced with a life of meaninglessness. We can color the picture with any crayons we wish; however, there is but one way to fill in the blanks.
How d'y'all cope with despair?
(Should anyone with to initiate a parallel discussion on Kierkegaard's text (available: http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=2067 ) go ahead).
All manner of succor is sought (and temporarily found) in artificial means--- whether drugs, alcohol, sex or various forms of all-is-nothing/nothing-is-all philosophies.
But there is truly only one peace which surpasses all of our abilities to comprehend or understand. That peace is found in the Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Feb 09
Originally posted by vistesdInhale, exhale. When it stops, end of this story😵
By “grand scheme of things,” I really just mean my living out of my existence, with all the connections that entails, in the face of my impending death.
I took your question in the OP to be a personal one, and my answer is personal; I do not intend any psychological generalizations. But I was perhaps not clear.
If one recognizes that one is in despai ...[text shortened]... pair and acute nihilism. The lesson is there. (Note that he abandons hope as well as despair.)