Originally posted by twhiteheadI would say that it has never been demonstrated that life can "evovle" from non-life in conjunction with the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
Which of the following claims would you subscribe to:
According to the Second Law
1. Self replicating molecules cannot exist.
2. Self replicating molecules cannot change.
3. Self replicating molecules cannot change into large molecules involving more atoms.
4. Self replicating molecules cannot occur by 'random'.
5. Natural selection (or the process ...[text shortened]...
Do you have any other claims that you feel would cause abiogenesis to violate the second law.
Originally posted by dj2beckerSo you are not claiming that abiogenesis is in violation of the law you are merely claiming that it has not been demonstrated?
I would say that it has never been demonstrated that life can "evolve" from non-life in conjunction with the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
How does that differ from
"I would say that it has never been demonstrated that life can "evolve" from non-life in conjunction with the The Law of Gravity."
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe TOE needs a starting point, ya know.
I just had a look at the site listed as a reference link in the original post. It is interesting that he starts of by placing strawmen in bold type right at the beginning of his argument. He claims that evolutionary theory rests on the big bang theory (which he also misrepresents) and abiogenesis.
Originally posted by twhiteheadIMO if abiogenesis did not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, it would be demonstrated to be possible.
So you are not claiming that abiogenesis is in violation of the law you are merely claiming that it has not been demonstrated?
How does that differ from
"I would say that it has never been demonstrated that life can "evolve" from non-life in conjunction with the [b]The Law of Gravity."[/b]
So either I reject the Second Law of Thermodynamics or I reject Abiogenesis. I opt rather to reject Abiogenesis Theory...
Originally posted by dj2beckerThat's a ridculously invalid position to hold. Demonstration of one thing and it's violation of another are two unnecessarily linked things.
IMO if abiogenesis did not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, it would be demonstrated to be possible.
So either I reject the Second Law of Thermodynamics or I reject Abiogenesis. I opt rather to reject Abiogenesis Theory...
Originally posted by dj2beckerI still don't get what you are saying. Are you saying that they contradict one another or just that you have never seen a step by step proof that they don't?
IMO if abiogenesis did not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, it would be demonstrated to be possible.
So either I reject the Second Law of Thermodynamics or I reject Abiogenesis. I opt rather to reject Abiogenesis Theory...
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I am reading your post over and over and I cant get it.
Are you saying that because we haven't put a man on mars it must necessarily violate the Second Law?
Every known required process for abiogenesis is known not to violate the second law.
Originally posted by StarrmanYour inability to demonstrate that life arose from non-life, just shows how ridiculous your big TOE is from an atheistic perspective at least.
That's a ridculously invalid position to hold. Demonstration of one thing and it's violation of another are two unnecessarily linked things.
Originally posted by dj2beckerI suppose so in as far as it is an extremely good approximation for what we observe. I also realise that it is largely a result of probability theory and that the true "Law of Physics" if such a thing exists is that some fundamental processes are random.
Do you accept the Second Law of Thermodynamics as a universal law of physics?
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But that is besides the point. The issue is whether or not abiogenesis violates the law or not, and what I or anyone else may choose to believe about the validity or universality of the law is quite irrelevant.
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo you agree that Science should be based upon that which is observable?
I suppose so in as far as it is an extremely good approximation for what we observe. I also realise that it is largely a result of probability theory and that the true "Law of Physics" if such a thing exists is that some fundamental processes are random.
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But that is besides the point. The issue is whether or not abiogenesis violates the law or ...[text shortened]... else may choose to believe about the validity or universality of the law is quite irrelevant.