Um, you're the one who claimed that somewhere in the universe there is an actual chair with God sitting on it. Is the chair ever replaced? Does it have a cushion on it?
I don't know as far as physical properties.
Gravity, sitting ... where, air etc. etc.
It is not like I never thought about these things. Somehow I am aware that we are masters at missing the point.
Now if I grill you about how long the first evolved fish crawled up on the land before he died or slunk back beneath the water, you wouldn't have an answer either.
If I asked you how long before the next fish ventured out on the dry land after the first fish, you'd have no answer. Or could you tell me in the first year how many fish tried to crawl up on the ground to kick off the next stage of evolution - you'd say you don't know those details either.
So I can play the details game just as well as you.
Originally posted by jaywillI take it you believe the requirement for the "throne" is to overcome sin within one's lifetime.
[b]====================
You say "the overcomers may sit on His throne".
Do you mean those who have overcome sin?
What happens to those who don't overcome sin?
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Eternal life and eternal redemption are a gift. The gift of God meets man's need.
Now God has a need. His need is that some who have received the gi ...[text shortened]... ty of the normal church life in community.
Does this answer your question somewhat?[/b]
What do you believe is the requirement for salvation?
Originally posted by jaywillThe point of these questions is not to show that there are details of which you have no knowledge. The point of these questions is just to show that they can be meaningfully asked of your view, unlike the views of other Christians that understand "throne" as a symbolic literary device that refers to authority or mandate.
[b] Um, you're the one who claimed that somewhere in the universe there is an actual chair with God sitting on it. Is the chair ever replaced? Does it have a cushion on it?
I don't know as far as physical properties.
Gravity, sitting ... where, air etc. etc.
It is not like I never thought about these things. Somehow I am aware th ...[text shortened]... u don't know those details either.
So I can play the details game just as well as you.[/b]
ThinkofOne,
Every discussion of the Bible these days slowly evolves into "The Requirements of Salvation" - Who gets saved and Who doesn't.
ThinkofOne, Believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead, Confess with your mouth. You shall be saved.
I am wanting to speak of the second birth of Christ being His resurrection. He is the Firstborn Son of God. This is not effected by overcomers or not overcomers. He is regardless the Firstborn of many brothers.
Is it a problem you have with dispensational discipline ?
The Old Negro spiritual said " Everything is Gonna Be Alright - When Jesus Comes !" I use to sing it loud.
Well, look at the New Testament carefully again. No. Everything may in fact NOT be "alright" when Jesus comes - for disciples of Jesus.
Forget about the unbelievers. We know it won't be alright with those who reject the Lord.
Anyway, Christ is the Firstborn Son of God among many brothers. The brothers need to mature and be overcomers. That is that they may be the many matured sons along with the Son.
We shall be like Him, remember. We shall see Him even as He is.
Originally posted by jaywillJust trying to put together a more complete picture of your interpretation.
ThinkofOne,
Every discussion of the Bible these days slowly evolves into [b]"The Requirements of Salvation" - Who gets saved and Who doesn't.
ThinkofOne, Believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead, Confess with your mouth. You shall be saved.
I am wanting to speak of the second birth of Christ being His resurrection. He is th ...[text shortened]... along with the Son.
We shall be like Him, remember. We shall see Him even as He is.[/b]
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The point of these questions is just to show that they can be meaningfully asked of your view, unlike the views of other Christians that understand "throne" as a symbolic literary device that refers to authority or mandate.
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Do you think that if I mean a physical throne then that renders the thought of authority as unimportant or besides the point ?
If that is the case then you have misunderstood me. I do not mean that because there is an actual throne the matter of authority has not relevance to the interpretation.
This is a dichotomy which I do not intend. And I think it is not implied at all.
ie. "Real authority has no meaning here because we are talking about a cushioned physical chair somewhere."
Originally posted by jaywillI said nothing of the sort. If whether there is an actual throne is immaterial to the putative authority of Jesus. This is one reason I find it so bizarre that you would think there is an actual throne somewhere where Jesus sits. Does he have to get up and stretch his legs, or does he just sit there forever?
[b]===========================
The point of these questions is just to show that they can be meaningfully asked of your view, unlike the views of other Christians that understand "throne" as a symbolic literary device that refers to authority or mandate.
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Do you think that if I mean a physical throne then that renders the th ...[text shortened]... rity has no meaning here because we are talking about a cushioned physical chair somewhere."[/b]
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I said nothing of the sort. If whether there is an actual throne is immaterial to the putative authority of Jesus. This is one reason I find it so bizarre that you would think there is an actual throne somewhere where Jesus sits. Does he have to get up and stretch his legs, or does he just sit there forever?
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I don't know. When Stephen was martyred as the first Christian to die for Jesus, it says that he saw Jesus STANDING rather than sitting.
I deem it significant that in that instance the Holy Spirit deemed it important to indicate that the Son of God was showing some honor to the first of His disciples to die for His name.
Isn't that something? Jesus standing in respect to the first Christian to lose his life because of the gospel.
"And he said, Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." (Acts 7:56)
The New Testament is quite balanced about the whereabouts of Jesus this moment.
In one book it says that Jesus is two places at once. He is at the right hand of God interceding for His people (Romans 8:34). And He is within the believers in Romans 8:9,10
Both are actual and real. This is because of the Triune God and that each of the Three lives within the other in the Trinity.
So Jesus is at the right hand of God and is also within those who receive Him as Lord and Savior.
Originally posted by jaywillHow nice of Jesus to appear at the martyring. How compassionate of Jesus to stand there while Stephen was being stoned by a raving mob.
[b]===================================
I said nothing of the sort. If whether there is an actual throne is immaterial to the putative authority of Jesus. This is one reason I find it so bizarre that you would think there is an actual throne somewhere where Jesus sits. Does he have to get up and stretch his legs, or does he just sit there forever?
== e the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." (Acts 7:56)[/b]
If you want Jesus to attend your murder, how far do you have to book him in advance?
Originally posted by bbarrAt least Stephen knew that he was going to be murdered.
How nice of Jesus to appear at the martyring. How compassionate of Jesus to stand there while Stephen was being stoned by a raving mob.
If you want Jesus to attend your murder, how far do you have to book him in advance?
Quite a bit better than the walking dead who think they're living it up.