The "Horrific God" Charge

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
imagine if you will, a typical little boy. this boy has the special magical ability to create living puppies with his thoughts.

what would be your opinion of this boy if he:

1. created puppies and then chooses some to love and others to abuse. demands full and constant attention from the puppies and for those he especially dislikes, he puts them i ...[text shortened]... es, but never threatened, abused or tortured them?

which one does the biblegod remind you of?

No. 2

Originally posted by googlefudge
Sorry, this is off topic, but pottery, not potty.
Pottery is stuff made out of clay,
A potty is a kind of primitive toilet for small children.

EDIT: Thank you, its a small thing but it was driving me nuts.

It was a typing error. I tried to edit it almost immediately, but apparently
it did not take. I saw i had games waiting so I went to the game. Sorry,
it bothered that much. 🙁

Originally posted by RJHinds
If this is what you think then there is a defect in your thinking. Get
professional help, is my advice to you.

I have the power and ability to kill you (as does pretty much every other person on the planet,
wonderful things guns (insert sarcasm here)).
This doesn't make it morally right for me to do so.

Might does not make right.

Assuming god made us all individually, which is a major and unfounded assumption, he still
can't morally kill us on a whim.
The fact he, as hypothesised, has the power to do so is irrelevant.

Unless you really do want to claim that because someone has the power to kill you they have the moral authority to do so if they so choose.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It was a typing error. I tried to edit it almost immediately, but apparently
it did not take. I saw i had games waiting so I went to the game. Sorry,
it bothered that much. 🙁

No problem...
Now do you believe god is more powerful than satan?

Originally posted by bbarr
Yeah, why reinvent the wheel? Anyway, it gets everything out at once, systematizes the argument, and answers the most common objections right at the start. If Jaywill wants to defend the God of the Bible, then he can reject the notion of God as presented in the argument, or he can reject premise (2), or he can reject premise (5). Or he could just admit that concepts like 'horrific' apply correctly to God (but I doubt he'll take that tack...).

Ok good. Glad you did not try to bull$hittt me.

Have you come across people smarter than you and people less intelligent that you? If you have what do you think of their ability to analyse situations ?

Originally posted by LemonJello
Please try to keep your eye on the ball.

Let's go through this again.

You put forth some manner of argument before, related to the potter/pot talk. Your implication, by way of analogy, is roughly that just like it is permissible for a potter to snuff out the pots he created if he so wishes, it is permissible for God to snuff out the creatures He cr ...[text shortened]... s, are moral patients.

I'll stop here and ask if we are on the same page so far. Are we?

I still don't understand why you use the term patients for them.
God to go back to my games now.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Do you believe god is more powerful than satan?

Sure, don't you?

Originally posted by RJHinds
No. 2

Can't do, your bible god threatens people with eternal torture for not believing in him.
Thus No. 2....

"2. created puppies and then loved and cared for them. admonished their mistakes, but never threatened, abused or tortured them?"

Cant be an accurate representation of your god.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Sure, don't you?

I don't believe either exists, but that's beside the point. It's what you believe I was getting at.

And of course you answered as expected, by saying your god is more powerful than Satan,
which is doctrinally right as far as I understand these things.


If satan is less powerful than god, (Much less powerful one is given to understand)

Then Satan's continued existence/freedom/influence/ect is by gods permission and will.
Thus for the argument presented in this thread it is irrelevant if god does it or satan does it,
god is responsible either way, because he is the one with the power.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Can't do, your bible god threatens people with eternal torture for not believing in him.
Thus No. 2....

"2. created puppies and then loved and cared for them. admonished their mistakes, but never [b]threatened, abused or tortured them?"

Cant be an accurate representation of your god.[/b]

God does not threaten, abuse, or torture us if that is what you think. Being
told the punishment for sinning is not a threat. It is a promise of judgment
on the wicked. What do you think is the abuse and torture? Being in
torment is punisment but not abuse and torture.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yea, except God created life and death so when either are appointed how does
that make God horrific? Now someone who does not have the ability or the
authority to create life or anything else causes genocide that does cause
horrific damage when they end life I agree. When God acts He is within His
ability and rightful place to do so as He wills.
Kelly

You do not have the right to kill your children.

Originally posted by Suzianne
He is only horrific against sin. He is not known to act without reason. And the reason is usually against sin.

Sounds like the "cure" is worse than the crime.

Originally posted by RJHinds
If a potter fashions some type of pottery from clay and he does not like
how it is turning out, doesn't he have the right to squash it and start
all over until he makes something that he likes?

With clay, yes. With human beings, no.

Originally posted by sumydid
As has been stated before and of course, ignored.

If this God exists, then there is an afterlife. If an afterlife exists, then it may or may not be horrific when someone dies, and it's broken down by the individual.

Not even Christians want to die.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I don't believe either exists, but that's beside the point. It's what you believe I was getting at.

And of course you answered as expected, by saying your god is more powerful than Satan,
which is doctrinally right as far as I understand these things.


If satan is less powerful than god, (Much less powerful one is given to understand)

Then Sa s it or satan does it,
god is responsible either way, because he is the one with the power.

As the Holy Bible says there is a time and place for everything under the sun.
Revelation tells us that one day Satan and the angels that follow him will be
cast into the lake of fire for eternal destruction.