The flawed idea of cause and effect

@kellyjay said
Root causes are what we look for in testing and trouble shooting. If we miss diagnose an issue we will be plagued by it until it’s resolved properly. One of the great things about the universe is it can be understood we can look at it and grasp it as long as we have all the necessary details.

If there things that occurred without a reason then the whole or parts of it could never be understood or known.

Why can't a flower be known?
Not identified or conceptualized but known in silence without anything added

@karoly-aczel said
Time flies when your having fun
Seems to drag on forever when things are unfavourable
You think?

Ah ok, yes, can't disagree with that, the subjective experience of time passing certainly varies according to context. A weekend waiting for the dentist to open on Monday morning lasts a helluva lot longer than two days.

I still tend to think that effects follow a cause though. Could you give an example of an uncaused event?

@moonbus said
You confuse causes and evaluations. A tree is knocked down by a high wind; there is nothing good or bad in that, just brute causality. The falling tree kills a child and people grieve, that’s a human reaction, it’s unfortunate but not morally bad. Someone could have gotten the child to safety but failed to; that’s culpably negligent, a moral evaluation. Three profoundly different aspects of one and the same phenomenon.

I don't confuse those words.
Truth be I'm very wary of how my words will be interpreted considering the huge extent of lack of agreement on what words mean
I've been testing

@avalanchethecat said
Ah ok, yes, can't disagree with that, the subjective experience of time passing certainly varies according to context. A weekend waiting for the dentist to open on Monday morning lasts a helluva lot longer than two days.

I still tend to think that effects follow a cause though. Could you give an example of an uncaused event?

I saw a tic-tac box materialise in front of me and fall on the ground. It came from another bedroom upstairs

@karoly-aczel said
Hmmm.
You say nothing is random, yet most anyone understands what random means. And believe without question in events being random,,

Everyone knows what "god" means, doesn't mean that's real either.

@karoly-aczel said
While cause and effect can be seen , and our view of time is that time is regular, it's easy to see how it can be glossed over and seen as a strong scientific theory explaining lots of stuff.
Time is maluable, however. And random factors can always change the outcome of a sequence where usually the outcome can be predicted.

I've seen plenty random uncauseated events and things that are spontaneous that make me question the whole idea of cause and effect

Objectively speaking, there are neither causes nor effects, but only a continuous stream of becoming. Separating the continuous stream of becoming into discrete events and then placing some of them into a causal relationship is a human cognitive endeavor, in order to influence the stream by explaining, predicting, and producing certain desirable outcomes and avoid others. The fact that we cannot explain everything is not a flaw in causality. It is simply a recognition of the fact that we are not God, we cannot influence everything.

@vivify said
Everyone knows what "god" means, doesn't mean that's real either.

Oh yeah. Pretty general term for some higher power or something . Don't find much use for the term

@moonbus said
You are now confusing both reasons and causes with ‘due to’. The reason a chess player plays e5 is not due to his hand moving the piece.

The cause would be the player decided on his best course of action and moved the piece. Oh course we could now look at what made s/he reason think that way, who directed that train of thought, did the setting have anything to do with the pressure of the game and on and on. Bottom line the piece didn’t move itself for no reason.

But do we not just cut apart everything to measure and to know it but then forget that we started with a whole

@karoly-aczel said
I saw a tic-tac box materialise in front of me and fall on the ground. It came from another bedroom upstairs

Yeah I guess that might qualify.

@karoly-aczel said
Why can't a flower be known?
Not identified or conceptualized but known in silence without anything added

You are changing the topic from cause to being.

@karoly-aczel said
I saw a tic-tac box materialise in front of me and fall on the ground. It came from another bedroom upstairs

What's even weirder is that Charlie's house doesn't have an upstairs level.

(P.S. -- It wasn't me. It has been decades since I had a box of Tic Tacs in my possession.)

@vivify said
Everyone knows what "god" means, doesn't mean that's real either.

No, I disagree, god can mean several things, even many different things as many gods are defined, while what some call God can mean several things. Some define God as what is left behind when we learn things; for example, there was a god of thunder until we understood electrostatic discharges. Definitions are vitally important; we can define truth right out of reality simply by only accepting that that fits our little box on what is and isn't acceptable to our worldviews.