Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI disagree. What I think clearly matters.
Let's first go back to my original claim that it is always wrong to torture babies for fun regardless of what people think, do you agree or disagree?
Our spooky duke friend thinks that things are only wrong if the majority decide it is.
I doubt that is his position. I personally think things are only wrong if I think they are.
Now, don't forget to answer my previous question regarding how you know whether or not talking in class is right or wrong.
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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou seem somewhat over zealous in your torturing babies example. I certainly wouldn't hire you for babysitting duties.
[b]Step away sir from the torturing babies example.
Too close to the bone? I will once you tell me why you think it would be ok to torture babies for fun if the majority decided it was right.
Why have you abandoned your example of genocide being absolutely wrong, even while holding the belief that biblical genocide was justified, hence inva ...[text shortened]... o commit it?
You on the other hand would be ok with it if the majority decided it was right?
But just to help you sleep at night, 'no' I do not think it is ok to torture babies for fun and it is no coincidence that the majority agree with me. Give humanity some credit dude.
And your second answer is a cop out. Yes we are discussing humans, but if God exists and is indeed the absolute authority, his justification for genocide in certain circumstances would still make your claim that it is absolutely wrong to commit genocide erroneous. How can something be absolute if it is dependent on one's divine status. It's like saying 'it's absolutely wrong to eat penguins,...unless you're Gary from Bognor Regis.' Absolutes have no room for exceptions.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by twhiteheadI disagree.
I disagree. What I think clearly matters.
[b]Our spooky duke friend thinks that things are only wrong if the majority decide it is.
I doubt that is his position. I personally think things are only wrong if I think they are.
Now, don't forget to answer my previous question regarding how you know whether or not talking in class is right or wrong.[/b]
Disagree that it is always wrong to torture babies for fun?
Now, don't forget to answer my previous question regarding how you know whether or not talking in class is right or wrong.
In a classroom, the teacher's rules with regards to behaviour are the ones that matter. Hence obeying the teacher's rules about behaviour is the right thing to do in the classroom. That's what I think. Do you disagree?
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhen did I say that? Stop putting words in my mouth. Or do you think lying is also ok? Then again why wouldn't you? If you thought it was right then it would be ok.
I disagree. What I think clearly matters.
[b]Our spooky duke friend thinks that things are only wrong if the majority decide it is.
I doubt that is his position. I personally think things are only wrong if I think they are.
Now, don't forget to answer my previous question regarding how you know whether or not talking in class is right or wrong.[/b]
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeBut just to help you sleep at night, 'no' I do not think it is ok to torture babies for fun and it is no coincidence that the majority agree with me. Give humanity some credit dude.
You seem somewhat over zealous in your torturing babies example. I certainly wouldn't hire you for babysitting duties.
But just to help you sleep at night, 'no' I do not think it is ok to torture babies for fun and it is no coincidence that the majority agree with me. Give humanity some credit dude.
And your second answer is a cop out. Yes we a ...[text shortened]... to eat penguins,...unless you're Gary from Bognor Regis.' Absolutes have no room for exceptions.
Do you believe it is wrong only because the majority decided it's wrong? Or is there another reason?
And your second answer is a cop out. Yes we a ...[text shortened]... to eat penguins,...unless you're Gary from Bognor Regis.' Absolutes have no room for exceptions.
We have always been talking about absolutes which apply to humans. Surely a creator would supersede its creation? The absolute of death for example applies to all humans. It doesn't apply to God, yet it is still an absolute.
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13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkNot sure why you keep requiring me to repeat my position.
[b]But just to help you sleep at night, 'no' I do not think it is ok to torture babies for fun and it is no coincidence that the majority agree with me. Give humanity some credit dude.
Do you believe it is wrong only because the majority decided it's wrong? Or is there another reason?
And your second answer is a cop out. Yes we a to eat peng ...[text shortened]... ath for example applies to all humans. Why would it also have to apply to God to be an absolute?
God has always been the elephant in the room. If morality doesn't come from man, obviously you lay it at his door. (Right?) - My position is not that I would think it ok to torture babies if the majority said it was the right thing to do. My position is that in a social setting most people adhere to shared moral behaviour in order for that society to function. (Not killing, not stealing, not torturing babies etc).Our individual sense of what is right and wrong is also fashioned within the society and moral culture we grow up in. My conscience was born of this social upbringing and it is my conscience that tells me it is not ok to torture babies,...as it does for the majority.
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13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWhat if one of the teacher's rules was the necessity to torture babies for fun?
[b]I disagree.
Disagree that it is always wrong to torture babies for fun?
Now, don't forget to answer my previous question regarding how you know whether or not talking in class is right or wrong.
In a classroom, the teacher's rules with regards to behaviour are the ones that matter. Hence obeying the teacher's rules about behaviour is the right thing to do in the classroom. That's what I think. Do you disagree?[/b]
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeGod has always been the elephant in the room. If morality doesn't come from man, obviously you lay it at his door. (Right?) -
Not sure why you keep requiring me to repeat my position.
God has always been the elephant in the room. If morality doesn't come from man, obviously you lay it at his door. (Right?) - My position is not that I would think it ok to torture babies if the majority said it was the right thing to do. My position is that in a social setting most people ...[text shortened]... it is my conscience that tells me it is not ok to torture babies,...as it does for the majority.
You are the one that said there is no right and wrong apart from what is decided by humans.
My position is not that I would think it ok to torture babies if the majority said it was the right thing to do.
But you did say that right and wrong was decided by the majority. Which means if the majority were to decide that something is right that would make it right! If it is not the majority's decision that makes something right or wrong then what is it?
My position is that in a social setting most people adhere to shared moral behaviour in order for that society to function.(Not killing, not stealing, not torturing babies etc)
Which means the majority decide what is right and wrong? In the social setting of cannibal societies the shared moral behaviour is to kill and eat other people. All people in those societies adhere to this moral behaviour. So what makes it wrong?
.Our individual sense of what is right and wrong is also fashioned within the society and moral culture we grow up in.
Yes but what is right for one society or culture may be wrong for another society or culture. How do you decide which society or culture is right about what is right or wrong?
My conscience was born of this social upbringing and it is my conscience that tells me it is not ok to torture babies,...as it does for the majority.
But if you grew up in a cannibal culture you would have no problem killing and eating another human being. So clearly if two cultures have two contradictory beliefs about what is right and wrong how do you decide which of the two culture has the correct moral code? Are you saying the majority is always right?
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIf I believed that life evolved from a chemical soup and had no objective value it would probably be easier to follow those teachers rules. 😛
What if one of the teacher's rules was the necessity to torture babies for fun?
Also the Bible says love your neighbour as you love yourself.
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13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThere are no moral absolutes. Your examples just validate this.
[b]God has always been the elephant in the room. If morality doesn't come from man, obviously you lay it at his door. (Right?) -
You are the one that said there is no right and wrong apart from what is decided by humans.
My position is not that I would think it ok to torture babies if the majority said it was the right thing to do.
B ...[text shortened]... hich of the two culture has the correct moral code? Are you saying the majority is always right?[/b]
It really is like talking to Plasticine. (No offense intended. Well, not absolutely no offense intended).
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13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThe bible also says 'Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.' Psalm 137:9
If I believed that life evolved from a chemical soup and had no objective value it would probably be easier to follow those teachers rules. 😛
Also the Bible says love your neighbour as you love yourself.
(There goes your moral absolute about torturing babies for fun).
Checkmate I believe.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkNo, I disagree that what people think is irrelevant. If everybody, yourself included, thought that torturing babies for fun was OK, then surely it would be OK, and you would agree (as that is one of the conditions).
Disagree that it is always wrong to torture babies for fun?
In a classroom, the teacher's rules with regards to behaviour are the ones that matter.
On what basis?
That's what I think.
I want to know why you think it. How did you decide that that was what was 'right'? Is it Biblical?
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13 Jun 16
It is wrong to torture babies for pure entertainment.
My conscience would not let me have peace if I did such a thing.
The Bible might say something which leads me to know it is wrong.
But another writing might also teach me it is wrong.
Or no book at all, but my conscience informs me that it is wrong.
But, I could do it because I have seen that I FAIL to not do many things my conscience protests at me doing. Possibly in this matter I too might fail. However it is practically unthinkable.
As to what I believe - My conscience is put into me by God. Whether I have the book of God or do not have the book of God, I think my God created conscience would act as a kind of braking system.
I would feel the "breaks" applying to my will protesting that I should not torture a baby for entertainment. Entertainment is not THAT important. Fun is not so important that I should pursue it to that degree. It is wrong.
If I fail to stop, such an action would probably haunt me in my conscience for the rest of my life. And I think every person reading this post would have the same experience.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke2 Kings 8:12
The bible also says 'Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.' Psalm 137:9
(There goes your moral absolute about torturing babies for fun).
Checkmate I believe.
Hazael said, "Why does my lord weep?" Then he answered, "Because I know the evil that you will do to the sons of Israel: their strongholds you will set on fire, and their young men you will kill with the sword, and their little ones you will dash in pieces, and their women with child you will rip up."
Isaiah 13:16
Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces Before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished.
Hosea 13:16
Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.
Nahum 3:10
Yet she became an exile, She went into captivity; Also her small children were dashed to pieces At the head of every street; They cast lots for her honorable men, And all her great men were bound with fetters.