Okay, for now, I will give and accept your statement:
Paraphrased: The truest form of happiness and inner peace is achieved by having a relationship with God
If that's the case, whose God? I think that is where the trouble really begins. Speaking for myself, an agnostic borderline atheist, I have no issue with anyone's belief or lack of belief in a higher power. I have no definition or explanation for it either because, as an agnostic, I believe it is well beyond mankind's comprehension. Sure I do hope for something better when I shuffle off my mortal coil but I have found nothing of comfort or satisfaction with the religions I have explored in my life thus confirming my agnosticism.
Regardless, I am not lonely or unhappy. In fact I am probably the happiest I have ever been. I think the question brought up in this thread was "What is the purpose of life then for an atheist or agnositc?" That is a question only to be answered by a case by case basis. I am confident I know the purpose of my life and whether or not it has anything to do with God I cannot say. I don't deny that it could but I am not convinced that it absolutely does...
Fist
Originally posted by Joe Fist"Who's God?" A process of elimination could work here...😉
Okay, for now, I will give and accept your statement:
Paraphrased: The truest form of happiness and inner peace is achieved by having a relationship with God
If that's the case, whose God? I think that is where the trouble really begins. Speaking for myself, an agnostic borderline atheist, I have no issue with anyone's belief or lack of b ...[text shortened]... nnot say. I don't deny that it could but I am not convinced that it absolutely does...
Fist
Originally posted by HalitoseI disagree and I think that is where most of the problems with religion begin. I also make the arguement that it is the dilemma that compels many of us who were perhaps open to a belief system at one time to turn away from it.
"Who's God?" A process of elimination could work here...😉
Many religions do not allow for the existence of different beliefs and worse some religions condemn others in the process. The very nature of a religion is flawed in the sense that there are no allowances for any other possibilities except for their version.
At least in my experience, neither the agnostic or the atheist is concerned with converting others to what they believe (or don't believe). Most of the ones I know are very accepting of most people including their faiths. They just don't indulge in them.
Fine, I will continue to indulge you but it seems obvious where you are attempting to go with this:
Go forward with your "process of elimination" which will lead me to what you perceive to be "God".
Anyone can make the arguement that "whatever" they believe is the one true God: Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Mickey Mouse, Paris Hilton, etc. The reason why is because there is no conclusive, universally accepted proof that any of the above are not. By the way, I reject the notion of any holy book (the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, The HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy) is the conclusive word of God for the same reason I stated above because of lack of conclusive proof. I just thought I would write that to save anybody the effort of writing it but I know somebody will.
Originally posted by Joe FistYou shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free...
I disagree and I think that is where most of the problems with religion begin. I also make the arguement that it is the dilemma that compels many of us who were perhaps open to a belief system at one time to turn away from it.
Many religions do not allow for the existence of different beliefs and worse some religions condemn others in the process. The ...[text shortened]... st thought I would write that to save anybody the effort of writing it but I know somebody will.
John 8:32
Good luck in you search my friend. I can't force anyone to accept a gift. Belief is a decision that every person should make for him/herself.
Originally posted by HalitoseSigh, I know I am going to regret this because all of these arguements end up in the same location...nowhere.
You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free...
John 8:32
Good luck in you search my friend. I can't force anyone to accept a gift. Belief is a decision that every person should make for him/herself.
Nice quote from John 8:32. Since I am not a follower of the Bible it has no relevance for me. I am assuming that you meant to imply that you and those who follow what you believe "know the truth" and I and those like me don't? If that's the correct assumption again I disagree with you for the same reasons as in my previous posts.
I am not searching for anything outside of this life and I am very content with the one I have. Sure I wish I was rich, thinner, better looking etc but I am overall happy. What is this "gift" that I think you are attempting to offer? The gift of your religion? Thanks but I will pass.
You are right about belief being a decision every person should make and I have. I imagine most people who have made up their minds have done this.
You eluded to a "process of elimination" but failed to continue? From your mention of John 8:32, I am assuming this process eliminates all but Jesus Christ, right? Well okay? I am not in any way, shape, or form qualified to discount your belief in Christ and I am not nor was I ever interested in doing so. Here is the flip slide though:
Nobody is qualified in any way, shape, or form to discount one belief in any of the following as "God":
Buddha
Mohammed
Krishna
Zeus
Odin
Regis Phelbin
Harry Potter
Howard Stern
Coca Cola
The lint from a dryer
etc, etc
Truth be told, I could careless what a person believes to be "the truth" as long as they don't try to discount what I believe to be true.
Originally posted by Joe FistMy quotation of John was intended to mean, when you find the truth, you will know it as the truth, and this truth will set you free. Nothing more... or condescending in any way.
Sigh, I know I am going to regret this because all of these arguements end up in the same location...nowhere.
Nice quote from John 8:32. Since I am not a follower of the Bible it has no relevance for me. I am assuming that you meant t ...[text shortened]... as long as they don't try to discount what I believe to be true.
As for the gift, read John 3:16.
Originally posted by Joe FistI completely agree with you. Man is free to choose to believe or disbelieve in whatever strikes his fancy. That is why I quoted John 8:32. Because for each man there is that moment of truth. I'm not making this exlusive for Christians or anybody.
Sigh, I know I am going to regret this because all of these arguements end up in the same location...nowhere.
Nice quote from John 8:32. Since I am not a follower of the Bible it has no relevance for me. I am assuming that you meant to imply that you and those who follow what you believe "know the truth" and I and those like me don't? If that's th ...[text shortened]... n believes to be "the truth" as long as they don't try to discount what I believe to be true.
Very well. Perhaps it was not your intent to be condescending or disrespectful but this is the quote that you started this thread with:
“I would like to introduce you to one of the most lonesomest and unhappiest individuals on earth. I am talking about the man who does not believe in God.”
Do you believe this to be “true”? If so, do you not understand how this could be insulting to anyone who is Atheist or Agnostic? It would be as equally insulting as to start a thread by stating:
“Anyone who believes in a God is a weak-minded simpleton who cannot face the reality of their life not continuing after death”
Whether I believe that or not is not the point. The point is I have not read many threads here by Atheists or Agnostics calling out those who have a faith unless it is reactionary.
As for this “gift” you are referring to, another nice quote. I don’t deny it could be true but, as I said before, it has little meaning for me. Not enough to create a thread calling out people who don’t share the same or any beliefs.
Originally posted by Joe FistThat original quotation was merely a debate starter. That was only the view of one person. There are many people with different views on the issue and I respect that.
Very well. Perhaps it was not your intent to be condescending or disrespectful but this is the quote that you started this thread with:
“I would like to introduce you to one of the most lonesomest and unhappiest individuals on earth. I am talking about the man who does not believe in God.”
Do you believe this to be “true”? If so, do you not understa ...[text shortened]... r me. Not enough to create a thread calling out people who don’t share the same or any beliefs.