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Depression is a disease.
You wouldn't expect a person sufrfering from cancer, who has had both legs ampuated to prevent the spread of it, to go and fetch a wheel chair for themselves. You certainly wouldn't call them selfish if they refused. Then why depression? I suspect because most poeple believe that the mind is somehow above the functioning of the body. It is not. The mind can be adversely affected by bodily occurences (such as a lack of a chemical called seratonin). I would tell a person suffering depression that suicide is selfish. In fact such comments are dangerous. They create a stigma. If a person suffering depression and contemplating suicide read this thread they will only feel worse. Attributing words such as selfish only increases the self- deprecation and self-loathing in a depressed person and hence, the likelyhood of suicide. I'm pretty sure my friend could have been saved if she had of told her friends about her disease. But instead she felt stigmatized and probably afraid to talk about it all because everyone thought suicide was selfish and that depression wasn't "real".
Originally posted by Conrau KLook. I am expressing my own personal experience with suicide and I maintain the claim that it is selfish regardless of the person's state of mind. I have never made the claim that the commiter was consciously aware of being selfish, not depressed, not insane etc. It was all of the above and frankly I am getting irritated with attempting to defend my feelings.
Depression is a disease.
You wouldn't expect a person sufrfering from cancer, who has had both legs ampuated to prevent the spread of it, to go and fetch a wheel chair for themselves. You certainly wouldn't call them selfish if they refused. Then why depression? I suspect because most poeple believe that the mind is somehow above the functioning of the ...[text shortened]... about it all because everyone thought suicide was selfish and that depression wasn't "real".
Each person's unfortunate experience with it is processed differently and this is my choice how to process it. I am getting offended and weary of people attempting to discount my feelings on the matter. I would never do that to someone who has went through it themselves.
Fist
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I have various opinions too, however i often dont manifest alot them when i know they might offend.
Secondly, how can it be selfish if the person is not conscious of it?
Selfishness is an act that promotes the self at the expense of other. Suicide does not do this. I can not see in a case of general suicide, it ever promoting the self. Selfishness is also deliberate. However we have established that depressed people are incompetent to perform deliberate actions because their thoughts are irrational. Suicide is not deliberate.
In accordance with your logic,it is selfish for:
1. Invalids not to work.
2. Post- natal depressed mothers to be depressed at the expense of their children. How dare they.
3. etc.
As a Christian I think one of the hardest things to deal with is the heaven/hell scenario.When I was 20/21 I walked a best friend part way home to his suicide.It/I ruined my life.The judgment I passed on God was that he sent my friend to hell....so being one of those people who never backs down I deceided I would make sure when I died I would go to Hell to give my friend a hug.Stupid yes,but the instant I found out he had hung himself I was suicidal.I've had a rope around my neck a number of times where somehow it just never happened.I would cut and burn my arms.I would get beaten up by a gang and just keep going back for more.I would have seances and sometimes prayed to the devil.I've slept with so many woman I lost count pretty quick.I would drink so much alcohol nobody could keep up.I became a heavy gambler and my prayer to the devil worked as it wasn't long after I got a deposit on a house from $20.ect.ect.ect.So many tears.It is hard for some people to read or write about a topic like this because of those who don't really understand,but like Joe is trying to do I also don't want anyone to go through what I did.It's not about feeling your pity that we look for....it's about stoping a repeating cycle through our own tragities.
Originally posted by aspviper666I think your missing the point of Jesus. He wanted them to kill him, so he could rise as the holy Spirit.
personally and this is me here
i think taking ones own life breaks a univesal law
that of self preservation.irreguarless if it breaks ur gods law or not.
i do know about ritual suicide or hari-kari and killing ur self to "save face" and i think if you believe that way ,then do what you will.
also the law of self preservation goes back to my post a ...[text shortened]... ng me to comply with anything death or torture. i would defy them.or any enemy for that matter.
Originally posted by helpmespockyes it was stupid of me to post jesus didnt want them to kill him.
I think your missing the point of Jesus. He wanted them to kill him, so he could rise as the holy Spirit.
wait .....i didnt post that!
dont put words in my mouth dude
i am a master at doing that
thanks
Originally posted by windmillI guess it's hard for people who haven't stood on the edge of the abyss to understand what's going through a persons mind at the time. I can understand how certian people might try it with selfish motives though (" I'll make them notice me" etc)
As a Christian I think one of the hardest things to deal with is the heaven/hell scenario.When I was 20/21 I walked a best friend part way home to his suicide.It/I ruined my life.The judgment I passed on God was that he sent my friend to hell....so being one of those people who never backs down I deceided I would make sure when I died I would go to Hell to ...[text shortened]... g your pity that we look for....it's about stoping a repeating cycle through our own tragities.
But I do know now (because of my experiences) that if you do get through it (suicide) every day of your life becomes a wonderful journey because every moment after is a bonus.
Originally posted by dagsWhen I think back over those times I really struggled I don't consider myself as being selfish.It is a pain that you try to get rid of usually in the wrong way.My suicide attempts came at those times when the pain became so great I could not bear it.I know excess drinking is very dangerous for a suicidal person,as to begin with you do seem to ease the pain,however when too intoxicated you lack the ability to fight as you do each and every day.I am happy that you give a true hope to some that life can become a wonderful journey.Yet,realistically for myself and others I do not see that happening.Even without being suicidal there are also the aspects of how to come to terms with the damage done.Life.Sometimes I just look forward to death in a good way cause I know my friend will meet me then.
I guess it's hard for people who haven't stood on the edge of the abyss to understand what's going through a persons mind at the time. I can understand how certian people might try it with selfish motives though (" I'll make them notice me" etc)
But I do know now (because of my experiences) that if you do get through it (suicide) every day of your life becomes a wonderful journey because every moment after is a bonus.