Originally posted by CalJustThe point of the thread was that these people who were going to God for
(Edit Pushed the wrong button by mistake)
To point one, it was society that made the valuation, based on the sacred scriptures they used. Whether or not it was indeed "God that made the valuation" is a matter of subjective belief.
To point two, yes, sadly, in the US (especially the Bible Belt) women are still subject to men, based largely on Paul's te ...[text shortened]... in the church, and being obedient in all things to their husbands.) But that is another subject.
a vow were being told what to bring, what the charges were for a vow. Had
they not gone to God for that there wouldn't be a charge, it was not about
who costs what!
Your views on Paul's teachings, have nothing to do with this.
Originally posted by KellyJayI still say that you are beating about the bush but let's accept the literal words that a vow of a man cost more to God than a vow of a woman.
The point of the thread was that these people who were going to God for
a vow were being told what to bring, what the charges were for a vow.
Why do you think this distinction was made?
And please don't say RJH style (aka Kindergarten style) "That's what God said, so He must have had a reason!"
Do you seriously think that because this passage only and specifically refers to making vows, that no conclusion or inference whatsoever may be drawn as to the values placed on the sexes?
Originally posted by CalJustI think men could afford it and they more than likely were going to paying
I still say that you are beating about the bush but let's accept the literal words that a vow of a man cost more to God than a vow of a woman.
Why do you think this distinction was made?
And please don't say RJH style (aka Kindergarten style) "That's what God said, so He must have had a reason!"
Do you seriously think that because this passage only ...[text shortened]... [b]no conclusion or inference whatsoever may be drawn as to the values placed on the sexes?[/b]
for the woman as well.
Originally posted by CalJustI believe you are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
I still say that you are beating about the bush but let's accept the literal words that a vow of a man cost more to God than a vow of a woman.
Why do you think this distinction was made?
And please don't say RJH style (aka Kindergarten style) "That's what God said, so He must have had a reason!"
Do you seriously think that because this passage only ...[text shortened]... [b]no conclusion or inference whatsoever may be drawn as to the values placed on the sexes?[/b]
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In a largly patriarchal society of the ancient Near East equality of honor and dignity of women to men is witnessed in many places in the Old Testament -
Genesis 1:27 - " God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him. male and female He created them."
The Bible makes sure we understand the image of God is reflected in the female as well as the male.
Genesis 2:24 - "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh."
A man does not just leave his father, but his father and mother. He is to cling or be joined to "his wife" as pretty much a co-equal, co-dependent partner. One wife for one husband is God's original intention though human practice deviated to include multiple wives inherently damaging the equality of women.
Exodus 20:12 - "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord God gives you." (compare to Exodus 21:15; Deut. 5:16; 21:18-21; 27:16)
God's will was that the mother is to be equally honored with the father.
Leviticus 19:3 - "Every one of you shall reverence his mother and his father. (Compare 20:9 )
Reverence, respect and honor is to be rendered to the women mother as well as the father.
Proverbs 6:20 - "My son, observe the commandment of your father and not forsake the teaching of your mother."
The teaching of the woman was to be given a much regard as the teaching of the man.
Proverbs 19:26 - "He who assaults his father and drives his mother away is a shameful and disgraceful son."
The disgrace in alienating the women is as bad as that for alienating the man.
Proverbs 23:22 - "Listen to your father who begot you, and do not despise your mother when she is old.
The woman is to be regarded as worthy of heeding as well as the man.
Proverbs 23:25 - "Let your father and your mother be glad, and let her rejoice who gave birth to you."
These passages men and women on an equal basis of honor in a patriarchal society.
God was concerned for the most vulnerable, especially widowed or divorced woman. Passages concerning justice for widows, orphans, aliens, and non Israelite strangers were evidence. God sternly warned potential oppressors that He was on the side of the weaker and defenseless vulnerable people.
"You shall not afflict any widow or orphan" (Exodus 22:22)
"He [God] executes justice for the orphan and the widow, He loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing." (Deut. 10:18)
"And the Levite shall come - for he has no portion nor inheritance with you - as well as the sojourner and the orphan and the widow who are within your gates; and they shall eat and be satisfied, so that Jehovah your God may bless you in all the work of your hands which you do." (Deut. 14:29)
"You shall not distort justice due a sojourner or an orphan, nor shall you take a widow's garment as a pledge." (Deut. 24:17)
"When you reap your harvest in your field and you forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not turn back to gather it; it shall be for the sojourner, the orphan, and the widow, in order that Jehovah your God may bless you in all your undertakings." (Deut. 24:19)
Originally posted by sonshipSonhouse is not interested in anything like that. He is only looking for words that he can twist the meanings to use against the Holy Bible and God as well as any Christian believers.
In a largly patriarchal society of the ancient Near East equality of honor and dignity of women to men is witnessed in many places in the Old Testament -
[b] Genesis 1:27 - " God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him. male and female He created them."
The Bible makes sure we understand the image of G ...[text shortened]... ] in order that Jehovah your God may bless you in all your undertakings." (Deut. 24:19) [/b]
Originally posted by RJHindsYou take the Genesis Creation literally but are
Sonhouse is not interested in anything like that. He is only looking for words that he can twist the meanings to use against the Holy Bible and God as well as any Christian believers.
loathe to believe more plausible passages?
Why? Who gave you the power of discernment?