22 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut Robbie, your forgetting the power of Satan and his bag of tricks. One of the best tricks he has is false religion which goes hand in hand with it's roots in paganism. One really fine example is our topic the trinity which was born in paganism.
because as has been pointed out if we leave the translation to the Greeks unscrupulous individuals shall take liberty with the text, as in this instance, somehow turning 'hos', that is 'who', into, 'theos', that is God. When we get to examine the Greek text for ourselves we realise that in not a few instances, this has occurred. Now we are Christia ral evidences, I dont know how anyone can believe it nor why its so important to them.
Millions upon millions of humans all thru history have fallen into paganistic traps. Some of it affects are oh so very subtle. But then it has also been so blatant that ones own children have even been killed in the name of it.
Satan has the uncanny ability to make ones feel to the bone that what they believe such as the trinity, is the truth hands down even though to ones not blinded by it's grip it is a mystery as to how with all the clear evidence that's available proves it's wrong and how they can't can't see how unscriptural it is. Satan has a lot to brag about with this one....
22 Jun 11
Originally posted by galveston75The anti-Christ is powerful, for sure my Texan brother, what i cannot comprehend is why it is so important to the trinitarians? For example if one were to dispense with the teaching altogether, how would this have a bearing on their faith in the Christ? This is perhaps the most puzzling aspect for me to try to understand.
But Robbie, your forgetting the power of Satan and his bag of tricks. One of the best tricks he has is false religion which goes hand in hand with it's roots in paganism. One really fine example is our topic the trinity which was born in paganism.
Millions upon millions of humans all thru history have fallen into paganistic traps. Some of it affects ar ...[text shortened]... ey can't can't see how unscriptural it is. Satan has a lot to brag about with this one....
I once gave this man a brochure of ours on the trinity, i went back as is our custom to see what he thought of it and he said and i quote, 'blasphemous!'. How was it blasphemous i wondered? Even some years on its a mystery why this particular doctrine should be so important, it serves no function, has led to controversy and division, tries to substantiate a mystery, relies not purely on scripture , but interpretation and inference, has, as its basis, a pagan root. I cannot fathom why its so important and believe me I have tried.
22 Jun 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt is a strong one for them no doubt. But to say you cannot be saved or be a part of their churches if you don't make some vow or promise or whatever they call it is really strange as there is nothing in the Bible to support such an action.
The anti-Christ is powerful, for sure my Texan brother, what i cannot comprehend is why it is so important to the trinitarians? For example if one were to dispense with the teaching altogether, how would this have a bearing on their faith in the Christ? This is perhaps the most puzzling aspect for me to try to understand.
I once gave this man a ...[text shortened]... s its basis, a pagan root. I cannot fathom why its so important and believe me I have tried.
The truth is supposed to set ones free from such burdensome traditions but for some reason they think this one is ok.
22 Jun 11
Originally posted by galveston75But Robbie, your forgetting the power of Satan and his bag of tricks.
But Robbie, your forgetting the power of Satan and his bag of tricks. One of the best tricks he has is false religion which goes hand in hand with it's roots in paganism. One really fine example is our topic the trinity which was born in paganism.
Millions upon millions of humans all thru history have fallen into paganistic traps. Some of it affects ar ...[text shortened]... ey can't can't see how unscriptural it is. Satan has a lot to brag about with this one....
Comedy genius!!!!!
22 Jun 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieEvery single cult starts with a misunderstanding of the nature of God this is why the trinity is important. If unimportant than then you can take away the glory in which Christ deserves.
The anti-Christ is powerful, for sure my Texan brother, what i cannot comprehend is why it is so important to the trinitarians? For example if one were to dispense with the teaching altogether, how would this have a bearing on their faith in the Christ? This is perhaps the most puzzling aspect for me to try to understand.
I once gave this man a ...[text shortened]... s its basis, a pagan root. I cannot fathom why its so important and believe me I have tried.
Manny
22 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71sooo the trinity is important because it gave others a misunderstanding? Mmmm interesting concept and it leads to a non glorifying of Christ? because Jesus needs the trinity to be glorified? Is that what you are saying? anyone else, why the trinity is important?
Every single cult starts with a misunderstanding of the nature of God this is why the trinity is important. If unimportant than then you can take away the glory in which Christ deserves.
Manny
22 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71And do you not even consider that this misunderstanding started back when the church let this formerly unknown trinity belief into their teachings? Your thinking small here Manny. What your accusing us of actually happnend to the Christian church a few hundred years after Jesus died just as Jesus prophisied. I promise you Manny, that's when this misunderstanding started.
Every single cult starts with a misunderstanding of the nature of God this is why the trinity is important. If unimportant than then you can take away the glory in which Christ deserves.
Manny
Think, think, think on all the proof you've been shown and not just from us, but look at the outside proof that you can find for yourself with even the slightest research..
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22 Jun 11
2 edits
Originally posted by DowardWell, first, that's not scholars use manuscripts. No serious scholar sits down and tries to evaluate which is the best manuscript and then use that exclusively. What he may do is relie on one primarily, since it may be the least corrupted or most readable for example. But he cannot afford to ignore other manuscripts. It may be that on one verse the other manuscripts unanimously disagree. It is then the scholar's job to explain why they disagree and then reconstruct the verse of the original text. As someone taking graduate study in classics, I know how difficult textual criticism can get.
The point here is that the Sinai doex has not been proven to be more reliable than the texts already in use.
Now it is not simply the Codex Siniaticus which has hos (who) rather than theos (god). This in fact the predominant reading of all the older manuscripts and most Western ones. Now checking the USCCB bible (for American Catholics), I find this footnote:
Who: the reference is to Christ, who is himself "the mystery of our devotion." Some predominantly Western manuscripts read "which," harmonizing the gender of the pronoun with that of the Greek word for mystery; many later (eighth/ninth century on), predominantly Byzantine manuscripts read "God," possibly for theological reasons.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1timothy/1timothy3.htm#foot7
Now I will just point out that this is exactly what I predicted to Robbie would be the explanation for the manuscript variation: the original 'hos' is difficult and to fix that, some more grammar-minded readers changed it to 'ho' (Latin 'quod'😉 while later readers changed it to 'theos', who were, to be fair, following context.
In short, Robbie is right. Good pick-up, Robbie.🙂
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22 Jun 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMaybe a thread on what Christian beliefs are essential to salvation, is in order, for the benefit of the heathens.
The anti-Christ is powerful, for sure my Texan brother, what i cannot comprehend is why it is so important to the trinitarians? For example if one were to dispense with the teaching altogether, how would this have a bearing on their faith in the Christ? This is perhaps the most puzzling aspect for me to try to understand.
I once gave this man a ...[text shortened]... s its basis, a pagan root. I cannot fathom why its so important and believe me I have tried.
23 Jun 11
Originally posted by menace71I meant to say that JW's are the cult. That Christ is robbed of his rightful place because of the JW's twisting of the scriptures and it all starts with a misunderstanding of the nature of God. There more clear.
Every single cult starts with a misunderstanding of the nature of God this is why the trinity is important. If unimportant than then you can take away the glory in which Christ deserves.
Manny
Manny
23 Jun 11
Originally posted by Conrau Kthankyou for this Conrau, the insight that it imparts is excellent, your research into the matter is really appreciated 🙂
Well, first, that's not scholars use manuscripts. No serious scholar sits down and tries to evaluate which is the best manuscript and then use that exclusively. What he may do is relie on one primarily, since it may be the least corrupted or most readable for example. But he cannot afford to ignore other manuscripts. It may be that on one verse the other ma ...[text shortened]... fair, following context.
In short, Robbie is right. Good pick-up, Robbie.🙂
23 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71the Christ is robbed of his rightful place??? that would be at the right hand of God, mmm, interesting that he could be both at the right hand and God at the same time, i suppose hes waiting there to subject himself to himself and hand back the Kingdom to himself, after praying to himself while on the torture stake and crying out to himself, 'why have you forsaken me', and being seen by many people , except no one can see God and live and all because of the trinity, yes indeed, what a total mockery the trinity makes of the Christ's rightful place, indeed!
I meant to say that JW's are the cult. That Christ is robbed of his rightful place because of the JW's twisting of the scriptures and it all starts with a misunderstanding of the nature of God. There more clear.
Manny