Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i guess you could argue that it is a bad thing to have life if you are an emo or something, but at least they have the option to take it away themselves as opposed to never being born and never having the chance to live

Not sure what an emo is, but them having the option to take it away is exactly my point. Not me or you or anyone else has that option - only them. It doesn't matter that I'm their father. They don't belong to me. They're independent humans. I'm helping them to survive in this world; helping them to learn about the world, so that they can eventually go it alone.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
you gave them life

So what?
The thing about us humans is that - despite arguments on these threads to the contrary - we have free will and independence. My kids are free to choose who they are responsible to and who they are responsible for.
My having helped create them means nothing - other than the obvious familial link we have with each other. (Which, don't get me wrong, I have complete respect for.)

Originally posted by amannion
Not sure what an emo is, but them having the option to take it away is exactly my point. Not me or you or anyone else has that option - only them. It doesn't matter that I'm their father. They don't belong to me. They're independent humans. I'm helping them to survive in this world; helping them to learn about the world, so that they can eventually go it alone.

google emo. that is what God is, our father in a way right? he doesnt own us, he just gives us life and that is all.

Originally posted by amannion
So what?
The thing about us humans is that - despite arguments on these threads to the contrary - we have free will and independence. My kids are free to choose who they are responsible to and who they are responsible for.
My having helped create them means nothing - other than the obvious familial link we have with each other. (Which, don't get me wrong, I have complete respect for.)

you gave them life so they should be greatful, i think you should be greatful of your parents and of God that you are alive

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
google emo. that is what God is, our father in a way right? he doesnt own us, he just gives us life and that is all.

If I believed that then yes that would be right.
But that gives it no special rights over our lives. It makes it responsible for our development as any parent is, but that does not mean we have any logical reason to love or obey it.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
that would take too much effort, and i refuse to believe that the universe has ALWAYS been here, it doesnt seem likely. it seems even more unlikely that it just created itself with a big bang, i thought explosions destroyed, not created. to me it has to be a supernatural cause because no other explanation seems likely

So, why God? Why not Muffy, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Giant Celestial Teapot or anything else. And you still have no proof that God even exists!

As for the Big Bang being an explosion, well, in a kind of way it is, but not in the conventional meaning of the word - it was absolutely unique, and very well proven in physics - an affirmation that your God lacks.

Originally posted by amannion
If I believed that then yes that would be right.
But that gives it no special rights over our lives. It makes it responsible for our development as any parent is, but that does not mean we have any logical reason to love or obey it.

you dont understand, he is not FORCING us or even ASKING us to obey him or love him. but you should

Originally posted by scottishinnz
So, why God? Why not Muffy, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Giant Celestial Teapot or anything else. And you still have no proof that God even exists!

As for the Big Bang being an explosion, well, in a kind of way it is, but not in the conventional meaning of the word - it was absolutely unique, and very well proven in physics - an affirmation that your God lacks.

God is what i call the one who i believe created us, because idk what his real name is. it could be somebody named Muffy or a Flying Spaghetti Monster

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
you dont understand, he is not FORCING us or even ASKING us to obey him or love him. but you should

Why should I?

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
God is what i call the one who i believe created us, because idk what his real name is. it could be somebody named Muffy or a Flying Spaghetti Monster

So how do you know that love and adoration is what it wants?

You believe that we were created, but I still wonder what your evidence for that is? Your entire argument seems to be "my brain is too small to comprehend why the universe is the way it is naturally, so I'll invent an explanation".

Originally posted by amannion
Why should I?

i have said it so many times, you should be greatful because he gave you life but this is where free will comes in; you do not have to! so if you do not want to acknowledge God's existence, submit to him, and be thankful of him, then don't.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
So how do you know that love and adoration is what it wants?

You believe that we were created, but I still wonder what your evidence for that is? Your entire argument seems to be "my brain is too small to comprehend why the universe is the way it is naturally, so I'll invent an explanation".

i did not invent God. i do understand the theories of the creation of the universe, i just do not believe it. i do not know what God wants, but i am thankful

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i did not invent God. i do understand the theories of the creation of the universe, i just do not believe it. i do not know what God wants, but i am thankful

So you believe a fairy story but not one that is based on scientific models - fair enough. That's your right.
But why are you thankful?

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i have said it so many times, you should be greatful [b]because he gave you life but this is where free will comes in; you do not have to! so if you do not want to acknowledge God's existence, submit to him, and be thankful of him, then don't.[/b]

If I believed that God did exist and did create me then I would be grateful. But that is still no reason to worship and submit to him. I don't expect that of my children and I don't do that to my parents who I do believe gave me life.
Also you say that his name is not important. But if you are worshiping the wrong god then you are not worshiping the one that created you. In fact you are contradicting both the Bible and the Qu'ran which both make it very clear that worship of other gods is strictly forbidden.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i did not invent God. i do understand the theories of the creation of the universe, i just do not believe it. i do not know what God wants, but i am thankful

i did not invent God.

Are you so sure? Seems everyone else here has a personal God.

i do understand the theories of the creation of the universe, i just do not believe it.

This, I sincerely doubt. Pray tell, what is so much more unbelievable about the big bang theory, than a man with a beard sitting on a cloud somewhere?

i do not know what God wants, but i am thankful

You don't even know he exists! Why are you so thankful? You just gave up telling me all the horrible things he's done to your family recently!