Originally posted by ivanhoe

This doesn't prove that the RC teaches that people are "worthless sinners".

It does. You are a sinner in the eyes of their lord until you repent and accept the redemption they are selling.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

This doesn't prove that the RC teaches that people are "worthless sinners".

Adhering to original sin is the same as telling people they are worthless sinners. You can spin it any way you want, but that is what it boils down to. Once people have accepted this self abasing view then christianity can provide the "service" of guiding them toward salvation. The church wouldn't have much to do if people believed they were born good and only occaisionally drifted into sin. No, the church must convince everyone that they are inherently sinful from birth so that their services will be in constant demand.

Of all the monstrosities that christianity has forced upon humanity in its history, In my opinion the doctrine of original sin if by far the worst.

Originally posted by rwingett
Adhering to original sin is the same as telling people they are worthless sinners. You can spin it any way you want, but that is what it boils down to. Once people have accepted this self abasing view then christianity can provide the "se ...[text shortened]... , In my opinion the doctrine of original sin if by far the worst.

"Original sin" seems mostly to have been crafted by St. Augustine's interpretations of scripture. But as an idea itself it is echoed in many of the world's wisdom traditions, only in a much less concrete way. For example in Eastern philosophy there is the idea that people are born "ignorant" ( the Sanskrit term "avidya" ) of their true nature, and have to grow into it over time, overcoming various layers of delusion resulting from societal conditioning, and their own disposition. The main difference is that this "growth out of ignorance" can be achieved via one's own intentions and actions. In Christianity the "original ignorance", called "original sin", was crafted in such a fashion as to ensure that it was only via Christainity that one could escape this "flawed" condition. Thus "original sin" is more of a political tool than a spiritual teaching.

Originally posted by rwingett
Adhering to original sin is the same as telling people they are worthless sinners. You can spin it any way you want, but that is what it boils down to. Once people have accepted this self abasing view then christianity can provide the "service" of guiding them toward salvation. The church wouldn't have much to do if people believed they were born good an ...[text shortened]... d upon humanity in its history, In my opinion the doctrine of original sin if by far the worst.

Rwingo: "Adhering to original sin is the same as telling people they are worthless sinners."

Not in my book and certainly not in the RC Church book.


Rwingo: "No, the church must convince everyone that they are inherently sinful from birth so that their services will be in constant demand."

It is one big conspiracy, I tell ya ......

I don't know to which church you are referring, but this doctrine certainly cannot be found in the teachings of the Roman-Catholic Church. On the contrary !
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Maybe times have changed...anyhow, for a fascinating insight into just how wonderful the RC church is, you could do worse than to read the part of James Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man that deals specifically with the concept of sin as drilled into the impressionable mind of an Irish adolescent. You could also watch the film The Magdalene Sisters, dealing with the minor issue of young women being incarcerated in prison-style improvement institutions for such terrible sins as having sex without their parent's consent (which is what marriage sometimes amounts to).