05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherIf a shepherd has a herd of goats or cats and tries to treat them like sheep, who's to blame if they all run away? It's obvious that you can't treat all animals the same way, it won't work. And you can't even treat all sheep the same way. If the shepherd has a sheep without herd instincts, he'll have to find a different way to keep it close to the rest of the herd. If it's a sheep with reasoning skills, he might explain why staying with the herd is desirable. However, if the sheep's reasoning skills are too good, it probably won't work, because the sheep will understand that the ultimate reason why the shepherd wants to keep the herd together is that he wants to kill them later and sell their meat.
Yes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
06 Feb 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhy is there a price to be paid when someone is a murderer? You reap what you sew, you suffer the consequences, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
That is something I have never understood and yet it seems to be taken as obvious by most Christians. Why is there a price to be paid? What is being bought? From whom, by whom? Is it perhaps a fine we are talking about? If so what is its purpose? Punishment? The maintenance of the Heaven Fund? Who is collecting it? When Jesus suffered and died, did God co ...[text shortened]... something? How does the whole 'died but rose again' thing work? Did he pay then get a refund?
06 Feb 07
Originally posted by NordlysThat's ridiculous and has nothing to do with a correct analogy. Like I've said a couple times before, every good analogy has it's limits.
If a shepherd has a herd of goats or cats and tries to treat them like sheep, who's to blame if they all run away? It's obvious that you can't treat all animals the same way, it won't work. And you can't even treat all sheep the same way. If the shepherd has a sheep without herd instincts, he'll have to find a different way to keep it close to the rest of th ...[text shortened]... ants to keep the herd together is that he wants to kill them later and sell their meat.
06 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherWell that depends on the country and its laws - and whether or not you get caught. You certainly do not reap what you sow in this world.
Why is there a price to be paid when someone is a murderer? You reap what you sew, you suffer the consequences, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The purpose of punishment and incarceration in todays society is:
1. Revenge.
2. To discourage other potential offenders.
3. To discourage repeat offenses.
4. To remove the offender from society in order to prevent repeat offenses.
Do you have another explanation or and explanation of how this applies to what we were talking about or do you actually have no explanation and are just trying to brush it under the carpet by saying "everybody knows".
06 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherWhat's ridiculous about it? My point is that a good shepherd needs to provide care and protection for all his animals, no matter whether they behave typically or not. If they behave differently, he'll need to use a different approach. That's part of his job. Do you disagree?
That's ridiculous and has nothing to do with a correct analogy. Like I've said a couple times before, every good analogy has it's limits.
My last comment was tongue-in-cheek, of course, but not without a point either, the point being that it's not advisable to blindly follow a seemingly benevolent leader.
06 Feb 07
1 edit
Originally posted by SharpeMotherNo, actually Nordlys always has good insight. Hers is a good sheep story.
That's ridiculous and has nothing to do with a correct analogy. Like I've said a couple times before, every good analogy has it's limits.
If my aim were shepherding, I suppose it would be nice if my sheep had some reasoning skills, but I would want them to be severely stunted when it comes to normative deliberation. I would desire that their deliberations be childlike, marked by an eagerness to adopt heteronomous standards of conduct without conducting even cursory investigation into the notion of justification -- basically, one who understands what a rule is and believes that any rule handed down by a presumed authority is to be followed but doesn't understand what purpose(s) any rule serves. Now there's a good follower.
06 Feb 07
Originally posted by LemonJello"I prefer an abbreviated phraseology, distinguished for its lucidity." -Stuart Chase
No, actually Nordlys always has good insight. Hers is a good sheep story.
If my aim were shepherding, I suppose it would be nice if my sheep had some reasoning skills, but I would want them to be severely stunted when it comes to normative deliberation. I would desire that their deliberations be childlike, marked by an eagerness to adopt heteronomous ...[text shortened]... followed but doesn't understand what purpose(s) any rule serves. Now there's a good follower.
Main Entry: nor·ma·tive
Pronunciation: 'nor-m&-tiv
Function: adjective
Etymology: French normatif, from norme norm, from Latin norma
1 : of, relating to, or determining norms or standards
2 : conforming to or based on norms
3 : prescribing norms
Main Entry: het·er·on·o·mous
Pronunciation: "he-t&-'rä-n&-m&s
Function: adjective
: subject to external controls and impositions
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by ahosyneySheep do have minds, they are just not nearly as clever as goats. What I always find funny is that Jesus went to the extent of telling a parable where the sheep get to heaven and the goats don't implying that God prefers people not to question too much.
sheeps don't have minds to think !!
Anyone who has spent time with both sheep and goats would know that goats are the troublesome ones. What not everybody realizes is that that is due to their greater intelligence and also a preference for a larger variety of food.
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem:'(
"I prefer an abbreviated phraseology, distinguished for its lucidity." -Stuart Chase
Main Entry: [b]nor·ma·tive
Pronunciation: 'nor-m&-tiv
Function: adjective
Etymology: French normatif, from norme norm, from Latin norma
1 : of, relating to, or determining norms or standards
2 : conforming to or based on norms
3 : prescribing norms ...[text shortened]... ion: "he-t&-'rä-n&-m&s
Function: adjective
: subject to external controls and impositions[/b]
Wasn't that Chevy Chase?
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyokay, it's logically impossible to do anything that an omniscient God doesn't already know that your are going to do. Also, of course, since God made everything, then everything is a part of what God has decreed.
[b]It's theoretically impossible!
What theory and who did discover or state it ?[/b]
God says "don't murder each other", yet God created murder, at least indirectly, by creating people that he knew would murder.