Spirituality
04 Oct 05
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageExactly why were you surprised you hated his guts?
I've been reading up on Savonarola (as a starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola) & wondering whether I'd have supported him or not. On the balance, and to my surprise, I think I'd have hated his guts & cheered when he got his. How about you?
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerWell, he was supposed to have been a moral reformer, and is often considered a fore-runner of the Reformation, along with Luther. Plus the Pope he was up against. Alexander Borgia, was an out-and-out scumbag. However...
Exactly why were you surprised you hated his guts?
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageAn honest question - do you think you are more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to people who have opposed the Church than those who have been loyal to it?
Well, he was supposed to have been a moral reformer, and is often considered a fore-runner of the Reformation, along with Luther. Plus the Pope he was up against. Alexander Borgia, was an out-and-out scumbag. However...
04 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by lucifershammerFrankly, I've given up on giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.
An honest question - do you think you are more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to people who have opposed the Church than those who have been loyal to it?
Anyhow, do you think the public turned against Savonarola because they wanted to be as licentious as the Pope?
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI like my Vanities, but doesn't this just illustrate how easily lead people can be? How powerful mob mentality is? Most of us would have gone along, and still cehered when he went up in smoke.
I've been reading up on Savonarola (as a starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola) & wondering whether I'd have supported him or not. On the balance, and to my surprise, I think I'd have hated his guts & cheered when he got his. How about you?
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by CanadaguyMost of us would have cheered for him when he was in favour & cheered when he burned. Quite Shakespearian.
I like my Vanities, but doesn't this just illustrate how easily lead people can be? How powerful mob mentality is? Most of us would have gone along, and still cehered when he went up in smoke.
Social reform seems to work better when religion is removed from the equation entirely.
04 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de Nageagreed
Most of us would have cheered for him when he was in favour & cheered when he burned. Quite Shakespearian.
Social reform seems to work better when religion is removed from the equation entirely.
My monkey thread was ignored in this forum. That makes me sad.
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageFrankly, I've given up on giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Frankly, I've given up on giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Anyhow, do you think the public turned against Savonarola because they wanted to be as licentious as the Pope?
That's quite a pessimistic view of the human race. I hope your faith in mankind is restored some day.
Anyhow, do you think the public turned against Savonarola because they wanted to be as licentious as the Pope?
Was that question serious or sarcastic? I'll assume the former.
I really don't know much about the Savonarola case. If I had to make a guess, I would think that he crossed a line in popular perception - instead of being seen as a critic of excesses in the Church and Culture he was seen as a critic of the Church and Culture themselves.
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageSocial reform seems to work better when religion is removed from the equation entirely.
Most of us would have cheered for him when he was in favour & cheered when he burned. Quite Shakespearian.
Social reform seems to work better when religion is removed from the equation entirely.
Does it? Did the French Revolution improve the situation of the masses? What about the Russian Revolution?
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerThat seems accurate. Read up on it in the Catholic Encyclopedia. His chief fault apparently was "disobedience".
I really don't know much about the Savonarola case. If I had to make a guess, I would think that he crossed a line in popular perception - instead of being seen as a critic of excesses in the Church and Culture he was seen as a critic of the Church and Culture themselves.