02 Aug 05
Originally posted by flyUnitySo how are we different than angels? I was always taught that angels were perfect. Does this mean that the messages carried by angels could have been misconstrued or altered by the angels?
Not Flawed, God Just gave everyone, Including angels, free will.
Do you think the angels should be living robots?
02 Aug 05
Originally posted by echeceroThis is a good question I have asked myself. To answer your question directly, I do not believe that an angel is capable of directly subverting an order of God. Such a thing would change the being by its very nature. A creature delivering a false message would not be an angel in the true sense of the term. A former angel, perhaps, but not an angel, and this would be a false message, not an altered one. I'm not going to cop out here by saying that God is omniscient, omnipotent, etc. I am going to give my two cents regarding celestial beings such as angels.
So how are we different than angels? I was always taught that angels were perfect. Does this mean that the messages carried by angels could have been misconstrued or altered by the angels?
To my best understanding, the major difference between mortals and celestial beings is the degree of choice given to us. Whereas we mortals live our lives much in the "gray" so to speak, such a thing is not possible with divine beings such as angels. As they have perfect understanging of Gods will such things as moral conflict and such do not exist for them. They are functionally omniscient in matters of morality, and as such "gray" does not exist for them. They either choose to be in perfect accordance with Gods will or not to be. It is black and white as they are concerned. Unlike mortals, they are not born into a sinful state (for that matter, they are not born).
Billy Graham wrote a book on the subject of angels a few years back. While I am not exactly a big fan of Billy, I found his book to be an interesting read, many points had very logical basis. Most notably I appreciated a reference that stated that in the after life a reborn soul is vastly more powerful than that of an angel (regardless of where that soul goes). My personal supposition on this theory is in the very essence of the difference between our free will and that of angelic beings. By virtue, a mortal soul has endure a far more volatile crucible than that of a divine being.
An "cult" from the old world called the Golden Dawn was centralized on the notion of angels. While I must profess that I have found the vast majority of their teachings to be baseless cultist babble, the foundations of the organization point toward some interesting notions and literary works that I have found interesting.
In summary, I would explain it as this. Imagine that we were simly given the choice of afterlife upfront. You can choose heaven or hell. Think of it as the red pill/blue pill. You know where exactly where each one will take you. You know exactly what the consequences are. You must be either complete light or complete darkness. There is no imperfection. There is no forgiveness, for there is no imperfection. The understaning is perfect, so the ramification is absolute. Thus is the choice of such celestial creatures created in the light.
This is, atleast, my some of my opinion on the matter. I highly encourage anyone interested in the subject to do their own independent study and come to their own conclusions. I hope my perception can be of use.
Best Regards,
Omnislash
02 Aug 05
Originally posted by echeceroTo tell you the truth, I dont really know myself, I dont think anyone completly does.
So how are we different than angels? I was always taught that angels were perfect. Does this mean that the messages carried by angels could have been misconstrued or altered by the angels?
02 Aug 05
Omnislash's post reminds me that angels are messaging programs. Would Lucifer have been a program that became self-aware and acquired a sudden distaste for its routine function? Are there any implications here for Artificial Intelligence? Or have they already been dealt with in the Terminator films.
Your humble servant,
Bosse de Nage
02 Aug 05
1 edit
Originally posted by OmnislashAre there any writings which deal with the pre-human period which are accepted by Christianity? I hear an awful lot of debate on the Bible which is post creation, but I've yet to hear, from a recognised source, where Satan came from in the first place. I've read Paradise Lost which deals with the story, but obviously this is a poem, not a religious text. Are there any? If not, how do we know where Satan came from and what factors created him?
This is a good question I have asked myself. To answer your question directly, I do not believe that an angel is capable of directly subverting an order of God. Such a thing would change the being by its very nature. A creature delivering ...[text shortened]... . I hope my perception can be of use.
Best Regards,
Omnislash
02 Aug 05
Originally posted by StarrmanNot that this will answer your question, but the Wikipedia article on Lucifer is very good! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer) It seems Isaiah, who is meant to have written the story, was drawing on older myths...
Are there any writings which deal with the pre-human period which are accepted by Christianity? I hear an awful lot of debate on the Bible which is post creation, but I've yet to hear, from a recognised source, where Satan came from in the first place. I've read Paradise Lost which deals with the story, but obviously this is a poem, not a religious text. Are there any? If not, how do we know where Satan came from and what factors created him?
Did you know that the Maya had a similar myth?
"In the Popul Vuh, the Mayan book of creation, there is a figure that is uncanny in it's similarity to the the Luciferian figure:
After this catastrophe, ere yet the earth was quite recovered from the wrath of the gods, there existed a man "full of pride," whose name was Vukub-Cakix. The name signifies "Seven-times-the-colour-of-fire," or "Very brilliant," and was justified by the fact that its owner's eyes were of silver, his teeth of emerald, and other parts of his anatomy of precious metals. In his own opinion Vukub-Cakix's existence rendered unnecessary that of the sun and the moon, and this egoism so disgusted the gods that they resolved upon his overthrow. - Part 1, Chapter 4 "
Looks like another mythological archetype,
02 Aug 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageMany myths have an element of truth...
Not that this will answer your question, but the Wikipedia article on Lucifer is very good! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer) It seems Isaiah, who is meant to have written the story, was drawing on older myths...
Did you know that the Maya had a similar myth?
"In the Popul Vuh, the Mayan book of creation, there is a figure that is uncanny ...[text shortened]... his overthrow. - Part 1, Chapter 4 "
Looks like another mythological archetype,
02 Aug 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI will read that, very intresting. It seems that there are a lot of things about Christianity which can be linked to other previous religions or cultures. For example, the archetypal picture of Jesus the Pantocrator found in St Sophia's ( http://www.stsophia.org/phototour/photo_image4.jpg ) and also in numerous other paintings from then on, is supposed to be based on the face of The Statue of Zeus, which was one of the seven wonders of the world. I don't doubt that a lot of images and even deities are the result of previous cultural myths/works of art etc.Not jus tin Christianity, but other religions as well.
Not that this will answer your question, but the Wikipedia article on Lucifer is very good! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer) It seems Isaiah, who is meant to have written the story, was drawing on older myths...
Did you know ...[text shortened]... er 4 "
Looks like another mythological archetype,
02 Aug 05
Originally posted by StarrmanFaces...proportions...sacred geometry...the golden section...well worth investigating.
I will read that, very intresting. It seems that there are a lot of things about Christianity which can be linked to other previous religions or cultures. For example, the archetypal picture of Jesus the Pantocrator found in St Sophia's ( http://www.stsophia.org/phototour/photo_image4.jpg ) and also in numerous other paintings from then on, is supposed t ...[text shortened]... previous cultural myths/works of art etc.Not jus tin Christianity, but other religions as well.