Russian orthodox pope wears $30,000 watch:

Originally posted by sonhouse
That dummies want to give him. Hmm, lets see, someone gives the orthodox pope or whatever you want to call him, gives him a watch worth 30,000 bucks, and he doesn't expect some favors in return? You are naive.

I don't know what they expect there. But some of the preachers here say whatever
you give will produce 7 fold return. They view it like a financial investment.
It is amazing how many people believe those preachers. Satan deceives in
so many ways.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I find it more disgusting that some one would complain about it. Perhaps
it should be against the law for someone to make watches and sell them
for $30,000. What do you think about that?

3rd attempt to get you to respond to this statement.

RJHinds said:"I find it more disgusting that some one would complain about it."

RJ are you saying that you find me (and others) complaining about him having the laity paid for $30k watch, more disgusting than the fact that he actually has it?

Are you going to explain why you feel this way?

Originally posted by Conrau K
Who said that the laity paid for it? Even if it were the case that the Patriarch purchased the watch using church money, it is far from clear that the laity paid for it. Many churches invest wisely, have their own property and do not rely substantially on the financial support of the laity.

He is paid by the church isn't he? The laity pay their tithes of obedience into the church do they not?

Do you think the leader of said church parading around in a watch that costs more than a years wages for some of the people paying those tithes is an acceptable attitude and behaviour?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I'm not extravagant in the slightest.

I don't believe you. Whats more, I don't believe it is possible.

What are you wittering on about?! Excuses for my own behaviour?! I'm criticising a member of the Church owning a $30,000 watch. That is was this thread is about, you seem to have gone off on a bizarre tangent.
I don't know why you think it is bizarre, nor why you think it is a tangent. The issues in the OP are quite clear and lead to some obvious and interesting questions:
1. is it morally wrong to be extravagant?
2. is it unchristian to be extravagant?
3. is everybody extravagant to some degree?
4. is the person in the OP beyond a certain limit of extravagance that is 'wrong' whereas you and I are 'OK'?

Now, do you think this Russian clergyman wearing a $30,000 watch is extravagant?
Of course I do, which is why I hardly think that that in itself is worth discussing. I think my above questions and more, are far more interesting.

Do you think it contradicts the teachings of Jesus?
Yes. But as I pointed out earlier, I am yet to meet a Christian that I think does not contradict the teachings of Jesus. I think Jesus' teaching of love exceeds what we are naturally inclined to give and even exceeds what even the most loving of us are willing to give. I think that many Christians recognise this and give excuses in one form or another - the most common of which is 'I am not perfect, but I don't need to be because Christ paid for my imperfections already'. Nevertheless, Jesus never told his disciples to take it easy and not to worry as he was going to pay for their sins later.

Originally posted by divegeester
He is paid by the church isn't he? The laity pay their tithes of obedience into the church do they not?

Do you think the leader of said church parading around in a watch that costs more than a years wages for some of the people paying those tithes is an acceptable attitude and behaviour?

He is paid by the church isn't he?

It is actually unclear to me what his stipend would be. He is a monastic and I do not know whether, as in the Catholic Church, elevation to the episcopate would release him from monastic vows. No doubt he receives a stipend of some kind but I doubt that it is likely to be substantial. He has to be accountable to his fellow bishops.

Again, I repeat, there is no evidence that the Church bought this watch. It could have been a gift of some political dignitary or foreign delegate. There is no reason to think that he would have recognised the value of the watch. I don't think you really appreciate the grandness of his position as patriarch. It is highly plausible it was a gift.

The laity pay their tithes of obedience into the church do they not?

I do not believe that the Russian Orthodox Church tithes. I suspect that the Church derives most of its wealth from land, from various tax reliefs from the Russian government, and through investment. I seriously doubt that the Russian Orthodox Church relies on the wealth of its laity. The country is predominantly atheist anyway and church attendance is extremely low.

Originally posted by divegeester
3rd attempt to get you to respond to this statement.

[b]RJHinds said:"I find it more disgusting that some one would complain about it."

RJ are you saying that you find me (and others) complaining about him having the laity paid for $30k watch, more disgusting than the fact that he actually has it?

Are you going to explain why you feel this way?[/b]

No. I do not find any of you personally disgusting. It is the complaining I was
referring to not the people complaining, for I do not even know them.

Originally posted by sonhouse
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/world/europe/in-russia-a-watch-vanishes-up-orthodox-leaders-sleeve.html

Then tries to cover it up with photoshopping it off his arm. If you wondered where church money goes......

I wonder how much food that would buy for starving people around the world?

I thought I was extravagant paying $50 for a casio G force radio controlled watch....

I'll bet mine is even way more accurate.

It's the dress those guy's wear that gets to me.

Originally posted by josephw
It's the dress those guy's wear that gets to me.

Well, they would look better in a regular suit and tie, IMO. No need for a tux.

P.S. I would also recommend getting rid of that stupid looking hat.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Well, they would look better in a regular suit and tie, IMO. No need for a tux.

P.S. I would also recommend getting rid of that stupid looking hat.

They sure need a lot of props don't they?

Originally posted by josephw
They sure need a lot of props don't they?

Yes, I guess they think it makes them look important and something special.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, I guess they think it makes them look important and something special.

Ya! If they took all the fancy clothes off they'd look just like us.

Not a pretty sight! 😉

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, I guess they think it makes them look important and something special.

Sure, why else is it that similar garb is worn by graduands, by fellows at college dinners and by judges in courts? Why should it surprise you that members of high religious office should also wear traditional garb?

Originally posted by RJHinds
No. I do not find any of you personally disgusting. It is the complaining I was
referring to not the people complaining, for I do not even know them.

Avoiding the question twice and then pretending to not understand it, is hardly credible behaviour RJ.

You said you found the complaining about this Pope having a $30K watch more disgusting than him actually having it and then trying to hide it.

Is this becuase you approve of him having this watch when he is the leader of a church which is predominantly funded by tithes and gifts from the laity?

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]He is paid by the church isn't he?

It is actually unclear to me what his stipend would be. He is a monastic and I do not know whether, as in the Catholic Church, elevation to the episcopate would release him from monastic vows. No doubt he receives a stipend of some kind but I doubt that it is likely to be substantial. He has to be accountable to ...[text shortened]... its laity. The country is predominantly atheist anyway and church attendance is extremely low.[/b]

I'm not surprised by your defence of this grotesque display of vulgar wealth by a leader of a massive overblown religious organisation, but I am a little disappointed by it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I don't believe you. Whats more, I don't believe it is possible.

[b]What are you wittering on about?! Excuses for my own behaviour?! I'm criticising a member of the Church owning a $30,000 watch. That is was this thread is about, you seem to have gone off on a bizarre tangent.
I don't know why you think it is bizarre, nor why you think it is a tan ...[text shortened]... ciples to take it easy and not to worry as he was going to pay for their sins later.[/b]

So you agree with the two objections i raised, but felt the need to go off on a tangent about my hypocrisy, excuses, extravagance and my denial/lying/dishonesty (whichever you think it is) about the assertions you inserted even though you know absolutely nothing about me.