15 Jul 15
Originally posted by RJHindsOne suspects sir that even a foolproof plan from God didn't account for your level of tomfoolery.
You are welcome to your opinion, but i am not going to worry about it. I have confidence that my God has a foolproof plan and will work it all out for good in the end. 😏
HalleluYaH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
15 Jul 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI agree we can know how to do right by following our conscience, but we can also
"Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it." (Isaiah 30:21).
If our conscience is 'the voice of God' and an atheist adheres to his own conscience (even without realising it comes from a divine source) could it not then be argued that it is possible to do the works of God without God in one's life?
damage it as we see in 1 Timothy; moreover, that is still just human activity where the
works of God require God.as we see in 1 Corinthians.
The thing is we had a break with God when we became a race of sinners, we see and
act as sinners, it is our default nature. We live lives breaking God's commands to love
Him and each other so much so that many just think it is no big deal and nothing to
concern ourselves with when they are by far the two greatest commands.
1 Timothy 4:1-3New International Version (NIV)
4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
1 Corinthians 2:13-15New International Version (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[a] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments
15 Jul 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeRomans 2 says exactly that but Christians would not see it.
"Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it." (Isaiah 30:21).
If our conscience is 'the voice of God' and an atheist adheres to his own conscience (even without realising it comes from a divine source) could it not then be argued that it is possible to do the works of God without God in one's life?
Originally posted by KellyJayA Christian is one that believes Christ and follows His teachings. I particularly like John's statement here:
Really, I asked you to define who a Christian is, and that is over your head?
You suggest that you don't need Christ to be right with God, that you can do that through
works alone. If we can please God through works, why would Jesus need to die, just take
the worthy and be done with it.
I doubt my questions were confusing to you, I just don't think you can back up your
claims with scripture to me.
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:1-5 KJV)
One of the reasons why I shy away from discussion with you is that you are not a fair minded person. I respond with statements and passages and you ignore them.
I already said that there are many BEFORE CHRIST who did not even know Christ. There are many in the time of Christ that did not know that he was the son of God and the saviour but they will still be in Gods kingdom. How do you explain that and reconcile it with your adamant view that EVERYONE HAS TO KNOW CHRIST ?
16 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Funny thing about you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, and have zero issue
A Christian is one that believes Christ and follows His teachings. I particularly like John's statement here:
[i]Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For t ...[text shortened]... w do you explain that and reconcile it with your adamant view that EVERYONE HAS TO KNOW CHRIST ?
them. Then you say things that just blow my mind and I fail to see how you could
possibly say them. What you said below I agree with, yet it seems that you also believe
that God will accept those that do not believe in Jesus Christ or His teaching if they work
hard enough about doing good works.
Now it is possible I am at fault in understanding your meaning, I could go back and find
the quote of yours where you seem to say that God didn't come to just save the
Christians, where I believe those are the only ones saved. I do believe He came to save
the whole world, but only those through Christ will be saved, all others will die in their
sins.
With respect to those that are saved before Christ, well I have nothing to do with that,
no view of mine will alter the outcome of their lives, the same will be true of those that
died in Christ's time while He walked as a human among us, but during that time God
started reaching out to those alive that they should turn to Jesus Christ not rely on their
good works to be saved.
"A Christian is one that believes Christ and follows His teachings. I particularly like John's statement here: "
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
Originally posted by KellyJayBelievers in the Old Testament and the ones during Jesus's life time were made righteous having faith in the promise of the coming Messiah. We are saved having faith in the same promise after the fact.
Funny thing about you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, and have zero issue
them. Then you say things that just blow my mind and I fail to see how you could
possibly say them. What you said below I agree with, yet it seems that you also believe
that God will accept those that do not believe in Jesus Christ or His teaching if they work
hard en ...[text shortened]... one that believes Christ and follows His teachings. I particularly like John's statement here: "
Rom 4:1-12
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen 17:10)
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
Abraham Justified Before Circumcision
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
NKJV
16 Jul 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterWell said, good points.
Believers in the Old Testament and the ones during Jesus's life time were made righteous having faith in the promise of the coming Messiah. We are saved having faith in the same promise after the fact.Rom 4:1-12
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen 17:10)
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 Fo ...[text shortened]... the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
NKJV
16 Jul 15
Originally posted by KellyJayWell said? Because it supports your view?
Well said, good points.
Are you not ignoring the parts of the Bible that say the the very same Abraham was JUSTIFIED BY WORKS? God can and will justify many by works. It is in the Bible even though you seem not to want to accept it. The topic is "Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !"
But I agree that it is not your business, neither is it mine.
16 Jul 15
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat is your view of Romans 2?
Funny thing about you, I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, and have zero issue
them. Then you say things that just blow my mind and I fail to see how you could
possibly say them. What you said below I agree with, yet it seems that you also believe
that God will accept those that do not believe in Jesus Christ or His teaching if they work
hard en ...[text shortened]... one that believes Christ and follows His teachings. I particularly like John's statement here: "
"Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !" "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) / "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36) / “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten* [uniquely born*] Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
Originally posted by checkbaiterYes, they believed in the prophesied Messiah prior to His/Christ's First Advent. While they were looking forward, we now look back at that prophecy being fulfilled. Since the first man and woman, salvation has always resulted from simple faith in Jesus Christ with nothing added: Sovereign God certainly doesn't need us trying to push the jet of His perfect plan to reconcile fallen man unto Himself..
Believers in the Old Testament and the ones during Jesus's life time were made righteous having faith in the promise of the coming Messiah. We are saved having faith in the same promise after the fact.Rom 4:1-12
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen 17:10)
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For i ...[text shortened]... k in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
NKJV
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAmen
Yes, they believed in the prophesied Messiah prior to His/Christ's First Advent. While they were looking forward, we now look back at that prophecy being fulfilled. Since the first man and woman, salvation has always resulted from simple faith in Jesus Christ with nothing added: Sovereign God certainly doesn't need us trying to push the jet of His perfect plan to reconcile fallen man unto Himself..