Questions that Christianity claims to answer

Originally posted by no1marauder
And was God just being sarcastic in Genesis 3:22?

22 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever-

Ironic, yes:

"In a wonderfully ironic speech, God notes the harm done by eating the forbidden fruit and removes the couple from the occasion of the further sin of eating of the tree of life." (NJBC 2:5)

"By constituting himself arbiter of what is good or evil, 2:17, sinful man has ururped God's prerogative. ... The tree of life comes from a tradition parallel to that of the tree of knowledge. Man is by nature mortal, see v. 19, but aspires to immortality which he will ultimately be granted. The paradise lost by human guilt is the image of the paradise to be recovered by God's grace."(Notes to Gen 3:22 in the NJB)

Originally posted by Coletti
If God could do the logically imposible...

Maybe God rolled dice. But even that would not work.

telerion, have you posted to the "free will" debate? It was really interesting...and then I posted...and suddenly no one's posting...enough to give me a complex.

No, I don't believe that I did. It got pretty heavy, pretty quickly. I'm afraid it would take me some time to give the thread enough attention to post anything worthwhile there. Maybe I'll rethink that assessment though.

(The following is directed more at Ivanhoe🙂

Regarding my post to Ivanhoe, I don't think the question I posed can be answered with anything other than, "No." If God is capable of creating other worlds than the one in which we currently reside, then He must have chosen the world most favorable to him (i.e. in His will).

Now this doesn't necessarily mean that He desires everything that is in His creation. We would need to make some stronger statements about God's nature first, namely we must describe His choice set. I'm willing to go there, especially as I think some assumptions are pretty reasonable, but I don't want to complicate things until I make myself clear. As it stands, for whatever reason, this is the world God chose to create. Thus it is ultimately His will that this very world exist, because if it were not ultimately His will, then this world would not.

Edit: I just took a look at your last two posts in the Human Free Will thread. I was surprised by your statements. At this point, I am inclined to think that free will is an illusion, but I understand that there are some very sophisticated positions within the general Free Will vs. Determinism debate with which I am not very familiar. My position could easily change with more exposure to the philosophy of the debate.

BTW are you a Calvanist?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Ironic, yes:

"In a wonderfully ironic speech, God notes the harm done by eating the forbidden fruit and removes the couple from the occasion of the further sin of eating of the tree of life." (NJBC 2:5)

"By constituting himself arbiter of what is good or evil, 2:17, sinful man has ururped God's prerogative. ... The tree of life comes from a ...[text shortened]... lt is the image of the paradise to be recovered by God's grace."(Notes to Gen 3:22 in the NJB)

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Man was immortal, not "mortal by nature" UNTIL he ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Genesis 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you eat of that, you are doomed to die.

And how can knowing that you're naked be possibly interpreted as the "arousal of lust"? Are you saying that Adam and Eve didn't have sex before they ate from the Tree of Knowledge?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Man was immortal, not "mortal by nature" UNTIL he ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Genesis 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you eat of that, you are doomed to die.

And how can knowing that you're naked be possibly interpreted as the "arous ...[text shortened]... Are you saying that Adam and Eve didn't have sex before they ate from the Tree of Knowledge?

One could argue that the ONLY reason Man was immortal was because he was allowed to eat of the tree of life (which, IMO, symbolises sanctifying grace). So, in isolation, Man is "mortal by nature", but becomes immortal when in communion with God.

In the Catholic/Christian context, "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes" (CCC 2351). I don't know if they had sex before they committed original sin, but it is possible to have sex without committing the sin of lust (as defined above).

Originally posted by telerion
No, I don't believe that I did. It got pretty heavy, pretty quickly. I'm afraid it would take me some time to give the thread enough attention to post anything worthwhile there. Maybe I'll rethink that assessment though.

(The following is directed more at Ivanhoe🙂

Regarding my post to Ivanhoe, I don't think the question I posed can be answer ...[text shortened]... easily change with more exposure to the philosophy of the debate.

BTW are you a Calvanist?

BTW are you a Calvanist?


Whom exactly are you asking ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
BTW are you a Calvanist?


Whom exactly are you asking ?

Oh yeah. My bad. That edit was directly for Coletti.

Sorry ivanhoe.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
One could argue that the ONLY reason Man was immortal was because he was allowed to eat of the tree of life (which, IMO, symbolises sanctifying grace). So, in isolation, Man is "mortal by nature", but becomes immortal when in communion with God.

In the Catholic/Christian context, "Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual p ...[text shortened]... nal sin, but it is possible to have sex without committing the sin of lust (as defined above).

Just for clarification do you believe that the Genesis Garden of Eden story is literally true or an illustrative metaphor?

Also, I again don't understand the leap from knowing you are naked to lust. Could you please explain that to me?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Man was immortal, not "mortal by nature" UNTIL he ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Genesis 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you eat of that, you are doomed to die.

And how can knowing that you're naked be possibly interpreted as the "arous ...[text shortened]... Are you saying that Adam and Eve didn't have sex before they ate from the Tree of Knowledge?

Could it be that the only people savable are nudists?
Maybe the reason hell is hot is to make people take their clothes off.

Originally posted by telerion
Edit: I just took a look at your last two posts in the Human Free Will thread. I was surprised by your statements. At this point, I am inclined to think that free will is an illusion, but I understand that there are some very sophistica ...[text shortened]... ure to the philosophy of the debate.

BTW are you a Calvanist?

That would probably be the best way to describe my belief system. And I consider the Westminster Confession of Faith to be the most accurate description of Christianity.

http://www.opc.org/documents/WCF_chapters.html

P.S. But I think Ivanhoe might be a Orthodox Nudist. 😀

Originally posted by no1marauder
Just for clarification do you believe that the Genesis Garden of Eden story is literally true or an illustrative metaphor?

Also, I again don't understand the leap from knowing you are naked to lust. Could you please explain that to me?

I believe that the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden is metaphorical.

As to the leap from "knowing you are naked" to "lust", that is perhaps a traditional reading of this passage by the Church (C.f. CCC 400). Certainly the perpetrators of original sin experienced shame and other, hitherto unexperienced, emotions at the sight of their own and their other's sexual organs. I am happy to interpret this passage in the broader sense of "sinful thoughts".

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I believe that the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden is metaphorical.

As to the leap from "knowing you are naked" to "lust", that is perhaps a traditional reading of this passage by the Church (C.f. CCC 400). Certainly the perpetrators of original sin experienced shame and other, hitherto unexperienced, emotions at the sight of their own and ...[text shortened]... sexual organs. I am happy to interpret this passage in the broader sense of "sinful thoughts".

Thank you for the clarifications. I will think about your posts and perhaps answer later (gotta go).

Originally posted by no1marauder
I should have been clearer; of course, I was not claiming that Man was perfect. I was responding to this question:

So you could say that the main question the religion faces is what to do about our imperfection?

I don't see how any religion can fix any of the imperfections you mention and would argue that the way religion has been used has contributed to all of them.

I never claimed that religion ever succeeded in this mission; I only implied that this question perhaps was one it tried to address. The idea that religion itself actually adds proof to this imperfection is ... well ... let's just say it's this sort of thing that makes humanity such a fun thing to study.

... --- ...

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Certainly the perpetrators of original sin experienced shame and other, hitherto unexperienced, emotions at the sight of their own and their other's sexual organs.

May I ask, why did they feel shame?

Is the human body shameful? God's creation shameful?

Originally posted by eagles54
May I ask, why did they feel shame?

Is the human body shameful? God's creation shameful?

This one has always bothered me as well. I think I posted my alternate Adam and Eve story somewhere in these forums. If you like I'll try to dig it up or recreate it. I'm too lazy at the moment, and a touch peckish, so I will wait for interest before acting.

... --- ...

Originally posted by Darfius
Great thread.

1)God's character
2)God's purpose
3)Man's character
4)Man's purpose

christianity would get my vote if it could answer

Why can I only find one sock from a pair at any given time

What is the purpose of a mustache

Why do Americans say 'I want to go to the bathroom' when what they really want is a toilet; even worse 'the rest room', if they pee in my bedroom (where I rest) I'll be livid and never invite them round again