23 Aug 11
Originally posted by CalJustHi Caljust you have started an interesting thread.
As I intimated in an aside, this doesn't really belong in this thread, but since I raised the point, I might as well answer.
Everybody instinctively needs to know who is in charge .
Maybe others will use different words, but essentially, the meaning is the same; i.e. who controls my life?
Primitive people thought it was the sun, or the tree ...[text shortened]... t about that concept, you should take it as a compliment! Seriously, aren't you worth it?
l do disagree with your use of the term worship - however l think l understand your intention for using it.
An athiest does not worship anything in the traditional meaning of the word.
And to answer your original question , l dabbled in various teachings before concluding that the evidence to that point did not allow me to support any organised religion that l have to date encountered.
l also know for sure that even if RJ Hinds God or Dasa's God is real , then l woul conciously reject it out of spite for allowing it to manifest such poor exponents.
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by CalJustIn agreement with Proper Knob, "worship" is not the correct term at all. I however, I do not feel I am in total control of my own fate.
Atheists, claiming that there is nobody that controls their life but they themselves, by default "worship themselves", although I hasten to add that it is not maybe the best term to use, although the concept is sound. It is perhaps best expressed in the poem: "I am the captain of my ship, I am the master of my fate!"
Further, I do not believe that most theists believe that God is in control of their fate or responsible for their actions. Thats what 'free will' is all about. Sure, many theists try to shirk the responsibility part by getting 'forgiveness'.
I also dispute your claim that "Everybody instinctively needs to know who is in charge." I don't think I have ever needed to know that instinctively or otherwise.
23 Aug 11
2 edits
Originally posted by nook7Hi Nook7,
l do disagree with your use of the term worship - however l think l understand your intention for using it.
And to answer your original question , l dabbled in various teachings before concluding that the evidence to that point did not allow me to support any organised religion that l have to date encountered.
l also know for sure that even if RJ Hinds then l woul conciously reject it out of spite for allowing it to manifest such poor exponents.
Thanks for your post.
I have been thinking a bit about the word "worship" after Proper Knob's comment, and come to the conclusion that it is not all that far fetched after all.
Let's first get to the poem Invictus which I quoted partially in error - the correct last verse is as follows:
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
This poem has clear "religious" references (e.g. the "strait gate", the punishments) against which it reacts. Since there are common christian hymns which state (in varying words and phrases) that Christ is my Master, my Captain, etc, this poem replaces the Christ concept with the I that is on the throne.
If A = B and A = C, then it follows that B = C.
By that I mean, if in the Christian hymn Christ is worshipped, then in the Humanist hymn, the I is worshipped, and intentionally so.
Again, we must not here see the word "worship" as having a shrine in the corner with my childhood photos and a bowl of oatmeal porridge. Rather, "worship" I see as venerating, giving pre-eminence to, holding in highest esteem, etc.
But I don't feel strongly about the use of that word.
What I DO feel strongly about is people who proclaim that they have sole-rights (or soul-rights??) to the TRUTH.
Remember the story of the Four Blind Wise men inspecting an elephant? One says an elephant is like a snake, another (dogmatically so!)it is like a tree, another that it is like a huge rock, etc.
Somehow, whatever the TRUTH is, you can be totally certain that it is bigger than all of us and all of our puny concepts.
I also agree, the slanging match between Dasa and RJH does no credit to either of their beliefs.
23 Aug 11
1 edit
Originally posted by CalJustA very interesting take on this CalJust.
Hi Nook7,
Thanks for your post.
I have been thinking a bit about the word "worship" after Proper Knob's comment, and come to the conclusion that it is not all that far fetched after all.
Let's first get to the poem Invictus which I quoted partially in error - the correct last verse is as follows:
[i]It matters not how strait the gate,
H the slanging match between Dasa and RJH does no credit to either of their beliefs.
l agree very much so that whatever holds to be truth is greater than all of us - and l KNOW that l do not know what this truth is.
Again l agree strongly with you about those that purport to KNOW the truth or the answers to it all.
Cheers
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by divegeesterThe Veda explains everything.The soul enters the body of the women during sex and is passed on to the women though the semen of the man.......and the conception takes place only because of the presence of the soul within the semen.
The baby develops in the womb because of the soul giving the life.
Without the soul in the womb there can be no baby
How do you know this?
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by CalJustThe journey becomes changed when the person receives new knowledge.
Thank you. MAYBE we are getting somewhere now...
Reading your short history, would I therefor be correct in saying that at least at some stage of your life you held views which you now realise were wrong? (Simple enough question??😉)
Furthermore, on your journey you learnt new things over time - maybe on your own and maybe with some help from others? ( ...[text shortened]... deceit?[/i]
Simple enough? Just answer the question if possible, without any red herrings!
As you can see I was in a progressive journey as knowledge came to me.
So then my question is why persons are not changing when new knowledge comes to them.
I have had Christians defend animal slaughter to their last breath even though their Bible tells them Thou Shalt Not Kill.
I have had science persons defending to their last breath that conscious life comes from non conscious life when we see all the time that life is coming from life........and we never see life coming from non-life.
I have given them new knowledge about this and have directed them to where they can enquire about true religion.............. but they whimsically reject and do not care to receive new knowledge.
This is dishonest when a proclaimed religious person rejects learning about spirituality and stands and defends their error........obstinately.
As you can see I readily accepted new knowledge as it came to me finally coming to the Veda.
The Veda is the end of knowledge.
The search for truth comes to an end when you embrace the Veda......because the Veda presents all truth.
There is nowhere else to go after the Veda..........unless you go backwards.
So dishonesty is there when a person rejects knowledge and stands and defends their falsity believing that there is nothing further to learn.
Ironically with the Veda it is not the same, because the Veda which has millions of verses giving instructions and knowledge of spirituality can not be over taken by other knowledge............ because it is the end of knowledge as regard to spirituality.
The Veda being the end of knowledge is final..........so where could a person go for further teaching (nowhere)
So if there is a place I could go to gain more knowledge of God then please inform me immediately.
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by DasaSo you read it in a book and believe and accept it at face value?
The Veda explains everything.
And now you, vishvahetu/dasa write it here and expect people to believe and accept it/you at face value?
And if I (or anyone else here) doesn't accept it, you accuse them of being "dishonest" - basically of being intellectual and spiritual liars.
Think that 3 step process through... just for a few minutes.
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by RJHindsThe soul and the spirit is one and the same.
There is body, soul, and spirit. It is the spirit that gives life.
The body dies a physical death. The soul must die a spiritual death.
If you take instructions from a book that has been compiled by animal killers you will always be mislead into error..
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by divegeesterYou don't accept anything blindly.
So you read it in a book and believe and accept it at face value?
And now you, vishvahetu/dasa write it here and expect people to believe and accept it/you at face value?
And if I (or anyone else here) doesn't accept it, you accuse them of being "dishonest" - basically of being intellectual and spiritual liars.
Think that 3 step process through... just for a few minutes.
Everything is experienced through purified mind body and heart.
You experience what you are taught.
But you cannot experience spirituality with conditioned unpurified heart.
Meat eating contaminates the heart...... and the person remains closed off to spiritual understanding.
Spiritual realization cannot be forced but must develop in a natural progressive way from following the true spiritual life.
Without following the ways of the true spiritual life there will be no realization and no understanding.........or it will be at least difficult.
So in the beginning there must be some faith that the process will work.
When the process does work the faith is no longer needed and everything becomes crystal clear.
You then enter into knowing.
Knowing is different than believing.
Do you believe the earth spins.
Or do you know the earth spins.
I don't believe in the reality of God..............but I know the reality of God.
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by DasaI never mentioned 'blindness'.
You don't accept anything blindly.
Everything is experienced through purified mind body and heart.
You experience what you are taught.
But you cannot experience spirituality with conditioned unpurified heart.
Meat eating contaminates the heart...... and the person remains closed off to spiritual understanding.
Spiritual realization cannot be forc ...[text shortened]... th spins.
I don't believe in the reality of God..............but I know the reality of God.
You lost me in your slough of despond after that.
23 Aug 11
Posted by Dasa:
I have given them new knowledge about this and have directed them to where they can enquire about true religion.............. but they whimsically reject and do not care to receive new knowledge.
This could have been said to you by any of a number of persons, including RJH.
Can't you even see the ridiculousness of it all?
I declare this thread closed as far as I am concerned - let those that wish to, keep slugging it out!
CJ departing - in peace....
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by CalJustWhat are you presenting?
Posted by Dasa:
[b]I have given them new knowledge about this and have directed them to where they can enquire about true religion.............. but they whimsically reject and do not care to receive new knowledge.
This could have been said to you by any of a number of persons, including RJH.
Can't you even see the ridiculousness of it ...[text shortened]... s I am concerned - let those that wish to, keep slugging it out!
CJ departing - in peace....[/b]
Are you presenting anything at all?
You reject everything and present nothing.
Are you here to create conflict.
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by DasaIt seems you are pointedly not answering my questions. Again:
What are you presenting?
Are you presenting anything at all?
You reject everything and present nothing.
Are you here to create conflict.
Were you ordered by your Brisbane temple masters to deliberately disrupt the spirituality forum here at Red Hot Pawn?
Also, you rail against people for not being vegan, however I would bet quid to donuts you ate meat before your present brainwashing.
23 Aug 11
Originally posted by sonhouseOf course! The hypocrisy is a think as a London pea-souper.
It seems you are pointedly not answering my questions. Again:
Were you ordered by your Brisbane temple masters to deliberately disrupt the spirituality forum here at Red Hot Pawn?
Also, you rail against people for not being vegan, however I would bet quid to donuts you ate meat before your present brainwashing.