Purpose without God

Originally posted by wolfgang59
When you talk nonsense like that you should be able to back it up with argument.
You cannot.
So shut up.

To have the ability to call anything good or bad requires a belief in something.

He's right. Why should he shut up ? Maybe you should shut up and learn something.

To call something crooked means you have some idea about what straight looks like. You must believe that you do.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Okay, so in a previous thread it was commonly agreed that God was holding us back as a species. (Joke).

But with God off the table, does life and existence really have no meaning, no purpose? - I ask this question as a few times in these forums theists have implied or stated directly that without God there can be no meaning. This of course would m ...[text shortened]... need to have a purpose? Is it just our fear or mortality that makes us seek out meaning in life?

Why do you expect your existence to have a universal meaning?

Originally posted by DeepThought
Why do you expect your existence to have a universal meaning?

I think that speculating about the existence of "a universal meaning" is an understandable aspect of the human condition given our mental capacity for abstraction and our self-awareness.

For some people, this speculation leads them towards being persuaded by the "answers" provided by various kinds of organized groupthink such as religions, traditions and branches of philosophy, political ideologies etc. all of which undoubtedly have valuable inputs to offer about our human condition.

I personally believe that religious doctrines, at least in so far as they are propagated by many of the religious people on this forum, represent rather a squandering of our capacity for philosophical speculation and self-examination.

To me, their claims amount to people settling for a kind of curiosity-terminating groupist package of superstitions and various phenomena and assertions that are not supported by sufficient evidence, and that can only be subscribed to by people willing to lower their expectations regarding the burden of proof or regarding the coherence of the technocratic verbiage needed to expound upon the reasons for their various beliefs.

Why do so many people expect their existence to have a universal meaning? I think it's because their minds are capable of conjuring up such expectation.

Why do so many people insist that the "universal meaning" they have found applies to everybody else? Well, I think it's because the expectation gets turned into an ideology.

As for ideology, I think it is all about eliminating doubt and disagreement and even wielding power or influence (or rationalizing submitting to it), and seeking these things is, for many, part and parcel of the human condition as well.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Why do you expect your existence to have a universal meaning?

I don't.

🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I don't.

🙂

You don't think that everyone shares the same right and wrong standards, that on some
level we all know some things are good and others bad?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't think that everyone shares the same right and wrong standards, that on some level we all know some things are good and others bad?

Even if we do "shares the same right and wrong standards" do you think that constitutes " a universal meaning"?

Originally posted by KellyJay
...we all know some things are good and others bad?

Again, if "we [do] all know some things are good and others bad" does that constitute "a universal meaning" to your way of thinking?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Okay, so in a previous thread it was commonly agreed that God was holding us back as a species. (Joke).

But with God off the table, does life and existence really have no meaning, no purpose? - I ask this question as a few times in these forums theists have implied or stated directly that without God there can be no meaning. This of course would mean ...[text shortened]... ife need to have a purpose? Is it just our fear or mortality that makes us seek out meaning in life?

All parents are designed to have nurturing relationships with their children. God created the first man and woman in the pristine environment of an exclusive garden for the sole purpose of enjoying a personal relationship with Himself [which continued until the first man violated the only commandment God had given]. All human beings who have been born since (as well as all human beings who will be born until the end of time) were also born for the sole purpose of enjoying a personal relationship with God in time and continuing throughout eternity. We have been given rational, verbal and memory storage capacities as well as moral conscience, volitional responsibility and self determination for this purpose.

Life on planet earth without significant purpose is by definition empty and ultimately meaningless [as in the often quoted alternative: "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die" to paraphrase King Solomon's observation in the book of Ecclesiastes]. Human emotions are designed to appreciate but are also capable of willful malfunction in expressing hatreds and fear: in context, the fear of mortality which attests to the fact that without a personal relationship with God life is indeed empty and ultimately meaningless. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of God." -Pascal

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Life on planet earth without significant purpose is by definition empty and ultimately meaningless...

If Christians are able to simply think some sort of "meaning" into existence and attach it to how they seem themselves and their lives, then surely anyone can. And surely they don't have to think in terms of Christian "meaning"? Presumably they are able to think of some other "meaning" aside from that, right?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I would turn the question around and ask why the belief in a supreme being provides meaning in life. It may provide goals or desires, but it doesn't magically produce some overall meaning. Meaning is whatever you make of it.

Evidently you are not correct. Billions of people find various degrees of fulfilment and life-meaning through religious and/or spiritual engagement. This may not be your way of finding meaning but who is to say it is any less effective or satisfying.

Originally posted by divegeester
Evidently you are not correct. Billions of people find various degrees of fulfilment and life-meaning through religious and/or spiritual engagement. This may not be your way of finding meaning but who is to say it is any less effective or satisfying.

I think you are reinforcing what twhitehead said: "Meaning is whatever you make of it."

Originally posted by sonship

To have the ability to call anything good or bad requires a belief in something.

He's right. Why should he shut up ?

No he isn't.
That's why he should shut-up.

And you ...
You're on a warning!

Originally posted by FMF
I think you are reinforcing what twhitehead said: "Meaning is whatever you make of it."

Yes I agree with that.

Meaning does not have to be "good" either. good being ethical, honourable etc. Take terrorists for example; their life seems to have "meaning". Having a meaning in life is the end of the story, so to speak.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't think that everyone shares the same right and wrong standards, that on some level we all know some things are good and others bad?

Isn't there sufficient evidence in the world for you to debunk your own statement here?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
No he isn't.
That's why he should shut-up.

And you ...
You're on a warning!

No he isn't.
That's why he should shut-up.

That's not much of an argument. So let's have a real explanation.

We're talking about good verses evil. This is like you know a rusty car because you know one that is in good condition. The rust is contrasted against what is desirable - a car in non rusty condition.

You know a shadow because you know the light. And to proclaim something to be evil you have to at least believe that you know what its absence would be - the good.

So you have to believe something to designate something as either good or evil.


And you ...
You're on a warning!
------------------------------------

You should be on warning for being so rude and telling a poster to shut up. At any rate you're unnecessary warning doesn't scare me.