Prove hell exists. Without the bible.

Hell did not originate in the Bible. A guy named Dante invented it and sold it to the Catholics who bequeathed it to the Protestants. Eventually, the Jehovah's Witnesses, who know not Dante, claimed principal ownership.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Hell did not originate in the Bible. A guy named Dante invented it and sold it to the Catholics who bequeathed it to the Protestants. Eventually, the Jehovah's Witnesses, who know not Dante, claimed principal ownership.

A guy named Dante got his ideas from Catholicism which in turn derive concepts from paganism and the Bible. Dante ran imaginatively with these ideas, embellishing and inventing details as he wished.

The Internet age scares me some time in abject naivete and out and out misinformation.

History is complexed and nuanced. This was a period in Europe when cynicism was growing because of the decline of the Christianity as a positive social force.

I know some of you would not think the world would ever consider the Roman Catholic Church as a positive social force. But some did and still do. And books like The Divine Comedy, I think I recall, were written as part of the fear and concern that the Church was not what she use to be.

Again, it is difficult for some people to think that the RCC was the main thing keeping society from falling into chaos. Centuries ago, though, this was a concern. And some nervous people wrote books to wrestle with this impending fear that they were losing the bedrock of social order.

"What will replace it ?
What will we do ? " they reasoned.

Satires, thoughtful books on Christian themes came out reflecting pre-occupation with wrestling with theocratic instabilities.

Originally posted by sonship
This was a period in Europe when cynicism was growing because of the decline of the Christianity as a positive social force.

I'm certain that you have a poll to support this contention.

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(I'm inclined to agree with most of what you said in the post even though most of it is poorly expressed and replete with hasty generalizations. Even so, it is more accurate than inaccurate.)

three days stuck in a snow bound cabin with seitse.

Originally posted by mister moggy
three days stuck in a snow bound cabin with seitse.

Three HOURS🙂

Originally posted by mister moggy
three days stuck in a snow bound cabin with seitse.

or you

Originally posted by Captain Strange
or you

So the gist of all that is we can have heaven or hell right here on Earth, no need for a supernatural hell or heaven.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So the gist of all that is we can have heaven or hell right here on Earth, no need for a supernatural hell or heaven.

Plenty of man made hells

Originally posted by sonhouse
Can't do it can you? Only humans could come up with a system so cruel. Cruelty is a major aspect of humanity, would not think a deity would be that cruel. A deity capable of breathing in an entire universe would have much bigger things on its mind than punishing so-called errant humans.

The Nordics knew about Hel before they ever heard of Christianity.

If this sentence is true then Hell exists.

Suppose the sentence is true, then if this sentence is true then Hell exists is true by identity. Then resting only on our initial assumption Hell exists by modus ponens. So by conditional proof if this sentence is true then Hell exists is unconditionally true. So the sentence is true, so by modus ponens Hell exists.

For those that like symbols:

A = If this sentence is true then Hell exists.
B = Hell exists.

A = (A -> B)
(1) A by assumption
(2) A -> B identity, from 1, depends on 1
(3) B modus ponens, from 1 and 2, depends on 1
(4) A -> B conditional proof, from 1 and 2, depends on nothing.
(5) A, from 4 by identity, depends on 4
(6) B, from 4 and 5, depends on 4 which is unconditionally true.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
I'm certain that you have a poll to support this contention.

.

.

,

(I'm inclined to agree with most of what you said in the post even though most of it is poorly expressed and replete with hasty generalizations. Even so, it is more accurate than inaccurate.)

Polls is not where you want to go.
You have to realize firstly that "hell-talk" predates Dante.

The second part of my post was off the top of my head trying to recall things I read about European history. It could be challenged. And I would like to double check what I think I recall.

But the salient point is that the Greek New Testament furnished concepts about judgment before Dante Alighieri lived (1265 - 1321 AD ).

I did read some of that book before I was an avid New Testament reader.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The Nordics knew about Hel before they ever heard of Christianity.

All religions have a version of hell.
They usually have a trinity as well God,mother son.
That goes back to ancient Egypt and Horace.

Originally posted by Captain Strange
All religions have a version of hell.
They usually have a trinity as well God,mother son.
That goes back to ancient Egypt and Horace.

They also had the 6 day creation story a thousand years before Jews wrote it down, thus making the Hewrew version of creation simply plagiarized from the ancient Egyptians. Of course the 6 day creation story of the Egyptians was only one of several in ancient Egypt.

The funny part is a lot of Christians who know that story think the Egyptian tale cut and pasted into Jewish books proves that 6 day thing was right, not plagiarized.

Of course the Jewish tale was a bit different but the gist was the same and it is obvious Jews kiped the story from Egypt when they were living there, slaves or whatever.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Can't do it can you? Only humans could come up with a system so cruel. Cruelty is a major aspect of humanity, would not think a deity would be that cruel. A deity capable of breathing in an entire universe would have much bigger things on its mind than punishing so-called errant humans.

Getting back to the original OP.
They raise potatoes in Idaho, U.S.A.
When they have an extra good crop, they hell the extra potatoes.
They don't cook them or throw them in a fire.
They just bury them in the ground.
The potatoes stay there underground until they are dug up or resurrected.
The word hell means the common grave of mankind.
As a Christian we hope for a resurrection also after we die and are buried.
(John 5:28, 29) Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, .....

I had a father-in-law that dug many hells in his lifetime.
He worked for the county as a gravedigger.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Can't do it can you? Only humans could come up with a system so cruel. Cruelty is a major aspect of humanity, would not think a deity would be that cruel. A deity capable of breathing in an entire universe would have much bigger things on its mind than punishing so-called errant humans.

Is hell actually mentioned in the bible?