19 Jun 07
Originally posted by steponupBecause so many people are child abusers. To you have any stats to show that priests are statistically more likely to be child abusers? If they are there are various possible reasons:
WHY ARE SO MANY PRIESTS CHILD ABUSERS?
1. Catholic priest must remain celibate. This means that potential child abusers don't have children in their own family to abuse and so abuse other peoples children. Most child abuse takes place amongst relatives.
2. Most priests are in a position of authority and trust and as such have an increased opportunity for abuse (as do teachers and a few other professions).
3. It is possible that child abusers are more likely to try to become priests (I am just guessing here).
19 Jun 07
You made some very good points that gives one food for thought. I have to write an essay on this stuff so thanks. You read so much about church officials in the news these days who don't seem to be able to live up to their vows and values. It shows that although you can practice principles its very difficult to live up to them.
20 Jun 07
Originally posted by steponupPriests are 'only human' but I would guess that on average they do 'live up' to their principles more than the average human. Partly because their whole lifestyle and position requires it of them. However there is no real reason why they should do better than the rest of us. If you are Christian you should strive to stick to the ideals you are proclaiming whether you are a priest or not. Not being a priest does not 'let you off the hook'.
You made some very good points that gives one food for thought. I have to write an essay on this stuff so thanks. You read so much about church officials in the news these days who don't seem to be able to live up to their vows and values. It shows that although you can practice principles its very difficult to live up to them.
I as an atheist have my own principles and I personally believe that I stick to my principles much more than the average Christian because I if I break them then I am going against myself which is harder than going against someone else. I think that Christians who say 'I will set myself these principles' more successful at keeping them than those who say ' I will try to abide by Christian principles'. It is a subtle difference but an important one. Many Christians who sin, feel they have wronged God or society but they do not always see it as wronging themselves.
20 Jun 07
2 edits
Originally posted by steponupWatch the documentary Deliver Us From Evil. It explains why there is so much molestation by Catholic priests. The website www.bishopaccountability.org would be another good resource for your research.
You made some very good points that gives one food for thought. I have to write an essay on this stuff so thanks. You read so much about church officials in the news these days who don't seem to be able to live up to their vows and values. It shows that although you can practice principles its very difficult to live up to them.
20 Jun 07
I actually believe that some Christians use the Devil and the possibility of forgiveness as an excuse and actually do more bad things than they would do if they were atheist. By this I mean that when they are tempted to do something against their conscience they give in to the temptation and blame the devil thus relieving themselves from some of the guilt. Also the knowledge that they can ask for forgiveness has a similar effect. And Christians who do feel that their sins have been forgiven have less remorse for past wrongs and are thus less disinclined to repeat the sin.
20 Jun 07
Originally posted by twhitehead...if I break them then I am going against myself which is harder than going against someone else.
Priests are 'only human' but I would guess that on average they do 'live up' to their principles more than the average human. Partly because their whole lifestyle and position requires it of them. However there is no real reason why they should do better than the rest of us. If you are Christian you should strive to stick to the ideals you are proclaiming ...[text shortened]... they have wronged God or society but they do not always see it as wronging themselves.
When I reflect on it, all my “sins” seem to be acts of self-betrayal in one sense or another, whether others were also harmed or not.
20 Jun 07
Originally posted by vistesdYet many people see a sin as something they would personally like to do but God is telling them not to.
When I reflect on it, all my “sins” seem to be acts of self-betrayal in one sense or another, whether others were also harmed or not.
Another non-religious example:
Why should a person not commit adultery?
If you believe it is wrong and make a personal commitment not to do it, you are far less likely to do it than if you believe your spouse thinks it is wrong and simply avoid it to avoid offending them. Those that go with the second, often end up committing adultery in the hope of hiding it from their spouse.
Another one:
If I steal I might get caught so I don't.
or
I do not think it is right to break the law. Stealing is against the law. So I do not steal.
or
I do not think it is right to steal.
20 Jun 07
I must say that I have known quite a number of Roman Catholic priests and brothers and cannot think of a single one that I do not have a very large amount of respect for. I find priests and pastors of other denominations to be much more of a mixed bunch with some gaining my respect and others not.
However I must also add that the majority of the Catholic Priests / Brothers I have met were foreigners and for them to have come to Africa as part of their vocation implies dedication, so it is possible that other countries would have different experiences.
20 Jun 07
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadThere was one very interesting fact that struck me when look at the American abuse scandal (this was also replicated in similar scandals in Ireland and Britain) -- the vast majority (something like 70-80% ) of the accused entered seminary in the 1960s and early 70s.
I must say that I have known quite a number of Roman Catholic priests and brothers and cannot think of a single one that I do not have a very large amount of respect for. I find priests and pastors of other denominations to be much more of a mixed bunch with some gaining my respect and others not.
However I must also add that the majority of the Catholic ...[text shortened]... ion implies dedication, so it is possible that other countries would have different experiences.
20 Jun 07
Originally posted by lucifershammerIs that statistically significant? Are they mostly within the same age bracket or is it the date they entered seminary that is the main factor? Can we blame it on a war somewhere? Do you have stats for how many priests are going through seminary over time (that must fluctuate quite considerably do to world wars and cultural changes etc) maybe there was just a boom in seminary attendance around then.
There was one very interesting fact that struck me when look at the American abuse scandal (this was also replicated in similar scandals in Ireland and Britain) -- the vast majority (something like 70-80% ) of the accused entered seminary in the 1960s and early 70s.
I cant think of anything that would affect both the us and Ireland and Britain except the second world war.
20 Jun 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'll need to hunt up the stats for men entering seminary by decade but, even accounting for the decline over the decades since the 1970s, the "Class of '65" group would still represent a statistically significant spike. While there is a greater variability in the age of applicants for the priesthood these days, back in the 1960s they would have been almost entirely from the 18-24yr age group.
Is that statistically significant? Are they mostly within the same age bracket or is it the date they entered seminary that is the main factor? Can we blame it on a war somewhere? Do you have stats for how many priests are going through seminary over time (that must fluctuate quite considerably do to world wars and cultural changes etc) maybe there was ju ...[text shortened]... k of anything that would affect both the us and Ireland and Britain except the second world war.
In terms of sociological drivers, certainly the WWII-aftermath could be a driver. After all, it was WWII that contributed to the "Baby Boomers" and consequent social upheaval.
I cant think of anything that would affect both the us and Ireland and Britain except the second world war.
Ah, but we're talking about the Catholic Church here. There was one very significant Catholic event that decade...