Originally posted by chinking58
Prayer is simply conversing with God.

As stated above it comes in all the typical forms of our other conversations.

I talk, and listen, to God because out of all the other 'persons' I can talk to, He is the One who really gets me. He never misunderstands me, and I can never fool Him either. He knows when I'm trying to be a poser, and He knows w ...[text shortened]... ut to build a relationship with you and conversing with you is probably the best way to do that.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by darvlay
The difference is that your manager is a real person who is able to respond in a manner which is evident to human beings. Not like Ol' Thunderbolt up in the sky... 🙄

You'll be surprised. Just a question? Could your boss ever spare the life of your dying son when you asked him to do so? If he can't why would would he be any less real that an unseen God that can and does?

Originally posted by dj2becker
You'll be surprised. Just a question? Could your boss ever spare the life of your dying son when you asked him to do so?

Did that happen to you? Don't mean to pry or anything. Feel free to ignore the question.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Did that happen to you? Don't mean to pry or anything. Feel free to ignore the question.

It happened to Abraham! 🙄

And no, he wasn't crazy at all...

Originally posted by dj2becker
You'll be surprised. Just a question? Could your boss ever spare the life of your dying son when you asked him to do so? If he can't why would would he be any less real that an unseen God that can and does?

Simply because someone has prayed to God for a solution to a problem, be it money problems, health problems, etc. and the solution arrives does not mean that God exists or that He directly answered their prayers. It is something we call "coincidence". People can attribute it to God all they like but the fact remains that God does not answer 99.9999% of the prayers of starving, dying and needy people across the world. When a prayer or urge goes ignored it was simply "not the will of God", yet when a solution is presented to the problem by whatever means, it's an effin' miracle!

Like, I had these stomach pains that were giving me this constipation so I wasn't going to be able to go to the Firehouse '06 Baptist Youth Convention but, like, I prayed to God and people in the church put their hands on me and suddenly I had to take a huge dump. So now I can go to Firehouse and learn more about how to serve him. Praise Jesus! He is alive!

Like I said: Crazy.

Originally posted by darvlay
It happened to Abraham!

No, it didn't.

Not, at least, AFAIK.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
No, it didn't.

Not, at least, AFAIK.

The story of Isaac and Abraham? Ring any bells?

Originally posted by darvlay
The story of Isaac and Abraham? Ring any bells?

Abraham did not ask God to spare the life of Isaac, and Isaac was not dying (unless you count his impending potential death at the hands of Abraham).

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Abraham did not ask God to spare the life of Isaac, and Isaac was not dying (unless you count his impending potential death at the hands of Abraham).

Oh, I see. Is splitting hairs also a common practice of Christianity, like prayer?

Firstly, Impending doom = dying, in this case. It was at the last second that Abraham decided not to kill his own son, the nutty bastard.

Secondly, if Abraham did not ask for God to spare the life of his own son than he is even nuttier than I could have ever dreamed of and, frankly, so are you. You would actually defend and honour that type of behaviour? Killing your family in God's name without question?

Originally posted by darvlay
Oh, I see. Is splitting hairs also a common practice of Christianity, like prayer?

Firstly, Impending doom = dying, in this case. It was at the last second that Abraham decided not to kill his own son, the nutty bastard.

Secondly, if ...[text shortened]... ? Killing your family in God's name without question?

I'm simply pointing out the factual errors in your POV.

In any case, I think dj2 was referring to a parent praying about a sick child. That was not the case with Abraham.

And yes, since Abraham knew that it was God asking him to sacrifice his son, I would defend his action.

EDIT: See how easily a thread can be derailed?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I'm simply pointing out the factual errors in your POV.

In any case, I think dj2 was referring to a parent praying about a sick child. That was not the case with Abraham.

And yes, since Abraham knew that it was God asking him to sacrifice his son, I would defend his action.

EDIT: See how easily a thread can be derailed?

Without purposely "de-railing" the thread any further (which I will interpret as "I don't want to talk to you anymore" - fair enough, not many Christians do)... dj2becker stated "Could your boss ever spare the life of your dying son when you asked him to do so?". You cannot state without a shadow of a doubt that Abraham did not ask God to spare the life of Isaac and, in my opinion, Isaac was as good as dead. And furthermore, it was your choice to focus on that comment rather than my response to dj2becker which was "on topic", I was simply responding to your message (which, I might add, had it been more explanative in the first place would have negated the need for this extensive sidebar).

Originally posted by darvlay
Without purposely "de-railing" the thread any further (which I will interpret as "I don't want to talk to you anymore" - fair enough, not many Christians do)... dj2becker stated "Could your boss ever spare the life of your dying son ...[text shortened]... rst place would have negated the need for this extensive sidebar).

I suppose more Christians (including myself) would be more than happy to talk to you if you didn't insult us with every post. Most people (including atheists and non-Christians) would not normally continue talking under those circumstances. Nothing surprising there.

As to your response to dj2, there is nothing useful for me to add there that would not completely derail this thread. The best place for that discussion would be, AFAICS, Bennett's "A General Argument from Evil" thread.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I suppose more Christians (including myself) would be more than happy to talk to you if you didn't insult us with every post. Most people (including atheists and non-Christians) would not normally continue talking under those circum ...[text shortened]... ld be, AFAICS, Bennett's "A General Argument from Evil" thread.

C'mon now, I don't insult you every post. More like every other post. 😛

I find prayer to be an absurd notion for the reasons I stated in my response. That's nice that you and chinking can have your little conversations with God and feel affirmed, etc. I have no issue with that. Hell, if it feels nice don't think twice. But the absurdity arises when people plead to God for their petty material or personal "needs" or feel that God has spoken to them during prayer. To think that God would rather spend his extensive resources curing one child from leukemia than feeding a continent of starving children (which someone must be praying for!) is irrational and completely unfathomable for a supposed God of Love.

The fact remains God does NOT answer any prayers.

There. I've done my part to bring it back online. Do you still wish to end the discussion? 🙂

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Did that happen to you? Don't mean to pry or anything. Feel free to ignore the question.

In fact yes. I was 7 years old at the time, having my tonsils removed. My parents were in the operation hall when the doctor told them that medically there was no hope for me. I was vomitting blood whilest under narcosis. I had had six stitches but the bleeding wouldn't stop. I was bleeding to death. My parents got on their knees and prayed so earnestly that God stopped the bleeding and spared my life. I don't think its a co-incidence that I can testify about answered prayer.

Originally posted by dj2becker
In fact yes. I was 7 years old at the time, having my tonsils removed. My parents were in the operation hall when the doctor told them that medically there was no hope for me. I was vomitting blood whilest under narcosis. I had had six st ...[text shortened]... think its a co-incidence that I can testify about answered prayer.

You were bleeding to death from having your tonsils out? You are flat-out lying to us, aren't you? "My parents got on their knees and prayed so earnestly..."?

Whatever.