Originally posted by epiphinehas
... around atheist water-coolers lately....

Notice how you are scared of being persecuted by atheists while marine bio is scared of being persecuted by Christians: National Sunday Law Thread 73514

Originally posted by twhitehead
It was a guess but I am fairly sure that it is over 90%.

[b]Judging from you prior posts, that must not sit too well with you... 🙂
You are correct.

Well, perhaps you are fortunate enough to live in a Christian country that actually reflects the teachings of Christ?
The government actually declared Zambia a "Christian Nation" (for pol ...[text shortened]... s as a single organized group by the way) is going to persecute the other 81% is ridiculous.[/b]

I don't understand why you and rwingett conclude that I must have a 'martyr' complex or a 'persecution' complex. I've only responded to the expressed opinions within the 'freethought' online community. Wherein no one advocates banning religion necessarily, though there is a general feeling it's time for rational people to strike at the heart of religious belief. The impetus being the recent push by conservatives to make intelligent design standard curriculum in schools, although the real driving force it seems is the desire to ridicule the very heart of religious faith itself, intelligent design being simply the excuse needed to disregard the social taboo of criticizing people's beliefs publicly. Bottom line, the gloves are off.

What I'm saying is, as a Christian, I don't necessarily see that as bad thing. For too long, in this country anyway, Christian communities have been publicly sensitive to others criticizing their beliefs, like wounded children complaining about their treatment in the schoolyard; publicly decrying the injustice of various criticisms or outright attacks on their beliefs. Like a bad parent, political correctness has coddled such behavior and justified it in the name of religious tolerance. My contention is that Christians should not expect to be tolerated, and should definitely not confuse such tolerance with a free license to impose their beliefs on the world via political action. God's kingdom is not of this world.

So your apparent fear that less than 19% of the population (who do not identify themselves as a single organized group by the way) is going to persecute the other 81% is ridiculous.

I said "relatively near" future, which could be hundreds of years away. If the trend stays as it is, one day the proportions of Christians to non-believers may be entirely reversed -- that is the scenario I'm referring to. I don't fear such a prospect; everything is in God's hands. I just want to worship my Lord and will do so even if it may be a danger to my life, as it is for my brothers in China. Someone with a persecution complex seeks out persecution, but I would never seek persecution for its own sake; that is not what Christ teaches.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matthew 5:10-12).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
I don't understand why you and rwingett conclude that I must have a 'martyr' complex or a 'persecution' complex.

Because you're using a slippery slope argument to construct an apocalyptic scenario where theists are met with intolerance.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Notice how you are scared of being persecuted by atheists while marine bio is scared of being persecuted by Christians: National Sunday Law Thread 73514

I'm not scared of persecution at all, that is your unfounded assumption. Which is curious, considering the thrust of my post expresses the exact opposite. As for Christian persecution, I've experienced being persecuted by Christians myself, even as a believer. Persecution is universal. Everybody is susceptible to persecution from somebody.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Someone with a persecution complex seeks out persecution..

When I said persecution complex I meant someone who thinks that they are being persecuted or that persecution is imminent even when there is absolutely no evidence to support such a claim.
Here you are starting a thread about how you think Christians might be persecuted 100 years from now because by then they might be in the minority. Are other minorities being persecuted now? Are Christians doing the persecuting?

Originally posted by Palynka
Because you're using a slippery slope argument to construct an apocalyptic scenario where theists are met with intolerance.

But the 'apocalyptic scenario' is obviously conjecture. And neither am I using it as an argument. Since you've missed it, I'll reiterate my point: in my opinion the Christian church would be better off keeping its hand out of the cookie jar and persecution may possibly wake people up to that.

Stop flaming.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Bear in mind that persection that is created by your own stupidity or obnoxious behaviour is not a blessing.

It sounds like you are speaking from experience. I shall bear that in mind, thanks.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
But the 'apocalyptic scenario' is obviously conjecture. And neither am I using it as an argument. Since you've missed it, I'll reiterate my point: in my opinion the Christian church would be better off keeping its hand out of the cookie jar and persecution may possibly wake people up to that.

Stop flaming.

Where did I flame you? I just pointed out the logical inconsistency of your scenario.

Whether you realize it or not, you're accusing atheists of going down the road of persecution. Reformulate your point without including me in the persecutors and I'll happily leave you to your speculations. Like this, I just can't.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
I'm not scared of persecution at all, that is your unfounded assumption. Which is curious, considering the thrust of my post expresses the exact opposite. As for Christian persecution, I've experienced being persecuted by Christians myself, even as a believer. Persecution is universal. Everybody is susceptible to persecution from somebody.

I am not sure that what you are calling persecution will be classified as persecution by Chist. What Christ referred to was what was practiced in those times - being, beaten, stoned, killed, imprisoned, expelled from society and such things. I doubt you have experienced any of these.

What kind of persecution have you experienced that warrants "reward in heaven"? Surely you cant be suggesting that people disagreeing with you, arguing with you, not speaking to you, even belittling you, amounts to persecution.

Originally posted by Palynka
Where did I flame you? I just pointed out the logical inconsistency of your scenario.

Whether you realize it or not, you're accusing atheists of going down the road of persecution. Reformulate your point without including me in the persecutors and I'll happily leave you to your speculations. Like this, I just can't.

Fair enough, you are not flaming, but I won't reformulate my point just because you take offense, especially since it is not necessarily an implication that every atheist is a persecutor in my speculations. I say merely, "...with the rising percentage of atheists and the falling percentage of believers in America it no doubt could be a reality in the relatively near future." That doesn't necessarily implicate atheists, but simply speculates about the possibility of more serious persecutions amid a radically different prevailing public opinion, one that may be decidedly atheistic. Read: China. If it makes a difference, I won't include you personally with the persecutors... 🙂

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Fair enough, you are not flaming, but I won't reformulate my point just because you take offense, especially since it is not necessarily an implication that every atheist is a persecutor in my speculations. I say merely, "...with the rising percentage of atheists and the falling percentage of believers in America it no doubt could be a reality in the re ...[text shortened]... hina. If it makes a difference, I won't include you personally with the persecutors... 🙂

LOL! Ok, as promised, I'll leave you to your speculations. 😉

Originally posted by Rajk999
I am not sure that what you are calling persecution will be classified as persecution by Chist. What Christ referred to was what was practiced in those times - being, beaten, stoned, killed, imprisoned, expelled from society and such things. I doubt you have experienced any of these.

What kind of persecution have you experienced that warrants "reward in ...[text shortened]... with you, arguing with you, not speaking to you, even belittling you, amounts to persecution.

What kind of persecution have you experienced that warrants "reward in heaven"?

That's between God and I.

I am not sure that what you are calling persecution will be classified as persecution by Chist. What Christ referred to was what was practiced in those times - being, beaten, stoned, killed, imprisoned, expelled from society and such things. I doubt you have experienced any of these.

You are just flat wrong, sir.

Christ is certainly not referring to being 'beaten, stoned, killed, imprisoned, expelled from society and such things' exclusively. You need desperately to reread the text I cited:

"Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matt. 5:11-12).

Originally posted by Rajk999
I am not sure that what you are calling persecution will be classified as persecution by Chist. What Christ referred to was what was practiced in those times - being, beaten, stoned, killed, imprisoned, expelled from society and such things. I doubt you have experienced any of these.

What kind of persecution have you experienced that warrants "reward in ...[text shortened]... with you, arguing with you, not speaking to you, even belittling you, amounts to persecution.

They've gotten soft, these christians. They sit around in the comfort of tolerant, secular society and imagine that being flamed in an online forum is akin to being thrown to the lions. I can just imagine Jesus lecturing this generation on how things were in his day. About how he had to carry his cross uphill, both ways, through the blazing heat, with no shoes. But try telling that to kids these days.

Originally posted by rwingett
They've gotten soft, these christians. They sit around in the comfort of tolerant, secular society and imagine that being flamed in an online forum is akin to being thrown to the lions. I can just imagine Jesus lecturing this generation on how things were in his day. About how he had to carry his cross uphill, both ways, through the blazing heat, with no shoes. But try telling that to kids these days.

Exactly. They live the easy life and they want 'reward in heaven' because of imagined persecution. 😀 Its definitely a persecution complex plus a freebie mentality.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Exactly. They live the easy life and they want 'reward in heaven' because of imagined persecution. 😀 Its definitely a persecution complex plus a freebie mentality.

What the heck is a "reward in heaven" anyway. Isn't heaven supposed to be perfect? If so, how could a reward make things "better"?

If I manage to get into heaven by the skin of my teeth do i end up being Whodey's janitor?