Originally posted by checkbaiterAnd, while it happens, do you know if you are prophesying? That is,
I suppose...you could put it that way...but it is still "inspiration" not direct revelation.
is there a distinction from the way in which you yourself experience the
words coming forth from your lips? That is, that you know it's 'inspiration'
rather than your own individual thoughts?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioThe prophet is one who speaks the message of YHVH directly to the people, often outside the bounds of religious convention. Generally, the message is one of justice and compassion, as opposed to religious legalism. Sometimes, as I maintain Jeremiah does, the message is corrective of prior understandings. (Some scholars believe that Jeremiah was speaking in some ways against the recently discovered “book” of Deuteronomy.)
If you have time, could you expound upon the Jewish understanding of
prophecy?
Nemesio
The prophets were speaking to then-current historical situations. Their words are valid for us to the extent that we find ourselves in similar situations. In a sense, I think, Checkbaiter’s comments about “forthtelling” apply.
Prophets are not “inerrant”, however. Like the Torah itself, their words are to be considered. In a certain sense, they were perhaps the earliest voices of the “oral torah.” That oral torah (I use caps to indicate the five “books of Moses” ) is continuing and dynamic. Jesus, for example, as a rabbi, spoke his torah to the Torah—as other rabbis have done before and since.
Rabbinical Judaism is not—and never has been—the religion of the “Old Testament.” Tradition is honored; it is not slavishly followed. (Well, sometimes, perhaps it is. There are undoubtedly Jewish “fundamentalists.” They are not, however, “mainstream”.)
As you know, “Biblical literalism/inerrancy” is not a particularly Jewish stance. Real torah arises from the engagement in which one brings one’s own torah to the Torah. (Talmid Torah—Torah study—generally takes the form of argument between at least two students; the Talmuds and the midrashim are not pronouncements as to the meaning of Torah, so much as they are a record of various interpretations by rabbis over time—ultimately set down in writing, not for adherence, but as a kind of template and a springboard for continuing interpretation.)
[I follow Abraham Joshua Heschel here, from his book The Prophets; my understanding, however, should not be laid to him.]
EDIT: As always, one needs to be careful about trying to expound the "Jewish understanding." Judaism is no more monolithic than is Christianity. This, however, seems to be the main stream, as I understand it (that is, one can find it among such various groups as Hasidic, Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist Jews, despite what other differences they may have).
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This is tricky. When I went to bible class years ago, we were taught at the end, primarily from 1Cor 12-14. We were brought to a place where we fully trusted God to manefest. We were told to move our mouths, lips and trust God that the words would be there.... Most did it, but some did not...The ones that did not were fearful, but came around later...
It was exhilerating for me because I knew I was not making up the words...One of the key verses that helped people was this...
Luke 11:11-12
11 "If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish?
12 "Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
(NKJ)
I simply trusted this to be God's will and went for it.
Originally posted by checkbaiterYour family does not love you. How do I know this? Because if they did, they would have you committed to a mental facility. Seriously. You can't honestly believe these things and be of sound mind.
Excellent...He is absolutely correct. If I may add....I know I am a Christian because I can speak in tongues, speak in tongues with interpretation, and prophecy. These are what I call the worship manefestations. I have also experienced word of knowledge and word of wisdom. Every believer has the potential to operate all 9 manefestations. The first three the gift of holy spirit. It has 9 functions or manefestations to help the individual believer.
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesSure they do...And here it says I have a sound mind...
Your family does not love you. How do I know this? Because if they did, they would have you committed to a mental facility. Seriously. You can't honestly believe these things and be of sound mind.
2 Tim 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
(NKJ)
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNot at all....But the fact is I don't really care if you think I have a sound mind or not. And visa versa, I'm sure. Well, enough already, my sound mind is telling me it is bedtime.....later...😉
Because I have holy spirit and God has given me a sound mind.
Not too compelling, is it?
Define a sound mind?
The ability to reason to sound conclusions? The ability to test one’s intuitions against reality? The ability to step out of a given system in order to evaluate its (external and internal) consistency? The willingness to correct one’s errors—assuming that one has survived them?
Originally posted by NemesioMe and some one else I do not recall who.
The verb is prophesy (pronounced prof-uh-sai). The thing which you
testify is a prophecy (pronounced prof-uh-see).
What sort of prophesying have you done? Weird vague ones like in
Daniel (a tower of iron will crumble when the Sun cries at the sound of
the moon's sleeping) or like real concrete ones?
There was some discussion some months back bet ...[text shortened]... emember who, one who was asserting that the time
for these manifestations has past.
Nemesio
I believe we were debating speaking and tongues.
Kelly
So back to Paul Washers message *caugh*
You guys can start a thread on sound minds, etc if you like 🙂 I would mind because i have my own thoughts on speaking in tongues and prophesy
ANYWAY
I personally found the message very convicting as a Christian. I also was sadden by it... so many people are not truly believes because of bad evangelizing methods, and even more so, because they don’t quest to learn after they are saved... which does not make a lot of sense and is opposite to what the bible shows and teaches.
Once again lets try to stay on topic, other topics are great for new topics or private messages.
Originally posted by ryunixI am a Christian. I thought the message was an important and powerful one.
I was wondering what people thought of his message. I am really currious what Christians and non Christians thing, so please specify that if you wouldnt mind
Here are 3 links to youtube videos. He talks about how a Christian can know they are a Christian thus knkow they are saved.
4 minutes of your time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY6F0pkArds
1 ...[text shortened]... watch?v=d3XA2k8S8Tk
Bonus full 60 minute sermon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8
He is essentially describing the sanctification process; a process which is initiated by the Holy Spirit, who convicts a person of sin and calls him or her to repentance. This is a process which begins the moment we believe in Jesus Christ, because when we are saved God gives us the Holy Spirit as a guarantee that we are (1) in his family, (2) that we've been purchased with Christ's blood, and (3) that our inheritance is secure. The truly saved person, therefore, cannot make a habitual practice of sinning because of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Of course, the truly saved person may yet fall into sin, but the true child of God is one who consistently "puts to death the deeds of the flesh."
This is sure evidence that a person is saved, I agree.