OT God

Originally posted by ahosyney
What you say is correct is some point and incorrect in many others!

You are correct in the point that Quran didn't come with a different Message in General. Because it is also a message of GOD (At least that is what I belive). So if the sender is the same so the concepts should be the same.

So the main target is to call for the worship of the one GOD, us manage to convince the other of his point, if we really care to find the truth.

Regards

I also believe there to be only One God. The trinity is indeed a difficult concept and many wrongfully believe that Christianity teaches that there are three seperate gods. The easiest way to explain it is to say that God created us in his image and being created in his image we to are a triune being as well. We are body, soul, and spirit yet we are one as he is one.

Do you think there to be no mysteries about God in which the Quran does not cover? Does the Quran cover all the unknowable truths about God? Does the Bible? I would venture a guess that neither one of us has an incling as to the mysteries of God even though we may know some truths about God. That is, of coarse, assuming we both believe he is infinite and all knowing.

Originally posted by Nemesio
It comes as no surprise to me that you would assert that your tradition is the right and true
one, even though the only Biblical scholars who think that the Genesis account is earlier are those
with your a priori assumption about the Bible's correctness.

Yes, I'm sure that both the Babylonian myth was preceded by an even earlier version th ...[text shortened]... is dependent
on a preceding tradition is the pot calling the kettle 'black.'

Nemesio

Point taken, however, I was merely pointing out that the Quran was not the original text of certain ideas such as life coming from water and the earth not being created in six literal days.

Originally posted by ahosyney
I agree with you but there is one point here. I pointed it before and I will do it again.

Translations of Quran are not considered to be Quran and Muslims use the Arabic Quran to get their faith and laws.

But that is not the case of the Bible. The Arabic translation of the Bible is used in Egypt (My country) as the Bible, and if you talk to Christians ...[text shortened]... appy. But I don't think I will be able to do that, because I have to learn a new language then.

You can buy books out there that help you translate origianal Hebrew words that you have questions about. After all, learning a new laguage is no different than this process. If I were to learn Arabic I would have to learn the Arabic equivalancy of English words, no? Why then is the notion that the Quran cannot be translated into another language that big of a deal? Either you have been taught the correct way to translate and learn another language or you have not been. The same goes with tanslating the Bible. Either you have a well written translation or you do not. Who knows, if you translate enough words from the origianal Hebrew you may learn the entire language in due time.

Originally posted by whodey
I also believe there to be only One God. The trinity is indeed a difficult concept and many wrongfully believe that Christianity teaches that there are three seperate gods. The easiest way to explain it is to say that God created us in his image and being created in his image we to are a triune being as well. We are body, soul, and spirit yet we are one as ...[text shortened]... truths about God. That is, of coarse, assuming we both believe he is infinite and all knowing.

Ok , I'm not talking about trinity and whether it is three GODs or not. All what I say that Quran say Trinity is not true. And that is a major difference.

The easiest way to explain it is to say that God created us in his image

That is another major difference between Quran and Bible. Quran say:

042.011
YUSUFALI: (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).
PICKTHAL: The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer.
SHAKIR: The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

So it clear that there is nothing like GOD so we are not talking the GOD image as Quran say. But the Bible tend to give GOD human attributes starting from the image, to emotions. That point what makes me belive that the Bible is modified, I think people in old civilizations tend to illustrate GOD in human image because they are not able to see him , so they added this to Bible to give a human image to the GOD. I don't have a specific prove, but I sure I might be wrong.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Ok , I'm not talking about trinity and whether it is three GODs or not. All what I say that Quran say Trinity is not true. And that is a major difference.

[b]The easiest way to explain it is to say that God created us in his image

That is another major difference between Quran and Bible. Quran say:
[i]
042.011
YUSUFALI: (He is) the Creator of ...[text shortened]... to give a human image to the GOD. I don't have a specific prove, but I sure I might be wrong.[/b]

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our llikeness..."

You may think that these words are not inspired of God I cannot tell. It is like rolling the dice in regards to guessing what Muslims believe in the Bible and what they decide is corrupted. Never the less, it is written and you are free to believe or disbelieve. However, is it not common sense to believe that the created is a reflection of the creator? Have you ever created something? If you have, you would see that it is a reflection of who you are. It is a reflection of your intellegence, of your needs, of your desires. Why do human beings need and crave love? Could it be because the God who created us is a God of love? Have you ever wondered about such questions? Do you want to serve a God who is not a God of love or a God in which we could never possibly relate to? If such a God exists, why would he have anything to do with us?

Originally posted by whodey
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our llikeness..."

You may think that these words are not inspired of God I cannot tell. It is like rolling the dice in regards to guessing what Muslims believe in the Bible and what they decide is corrupted. Never the less, it is written and you are free to believe or disbelieve. However, ...[text shortened]... ecause the God who created us is a God of love? Have you ever wondered about such questions?

We are not the only creature of GOD. If what you say is true why only humans reflects their creator. Why only humans are created in the Image of GOD. Didn't you ask yourself this Question?

Is love the only important issue in human life? Most of our actions are based on desires inside us. Love is one of them, but not all of them. Human desire food, as well. And it sometimes more important than love. Does this reflects GOD too?

Did you ask yourself why GOD created you?

Originally posted by whodey
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our llikeness..."

You may think that these words are not inspired of God I cannot tell. It is like rolling the dice in regards to guessing what Muslims believe in the Bible and what they decide is corrupted. Never the less, it is written and you are free to believe or disbelieve. However, ...[text shortened]... ld never possibly relate to? If such a God exists, why would he have anything to do with us?

You changed your last Question!!!!

Any way.

What do you mean by GOD of love?

GOD is your creator. That is enough reason to worship him without asking a return. Because he is the reason of your existance. What relate you to him is he created you. That means you are the one who should love him, and follow what he wants you to do. Because he knows what is the best for you.

What do you mean by GOD of love?

I asked you before how may times you read the Quran. Try to read it if you didn't may be you will find an answer to your questions?

Originally posted by ahosyney
Did you read the posts in this thread?

Was it known that every creature is created from water.

Was it known that the earth and heavens were one unit and spreaded apart by force.

Was it known that the sky work as a Gaurd for the earth.

That what I claimed Quran say so far?

Is that all included all under:

[b]so far, your Qu'ran hasn't actually revealed anything which wasn't already known.[/b]

Was it known that every creature is created from water.

You are reading into this. Life probably did evolve in the sea but, bearing in mind the absolute necessity of water for life, this is hardly a startling revelation.


Was it known that the earth and heavens were one unit and spreaded apart by force.

I don't even know what science you are referring to here. Of course, the Maori have similar beliefs - perhaps your God visited them too?

Was it known that the sky work as a Gaurd for the earth.

Why not try making sense?

So, again, nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing that other societies hadn't came up with - and certainly nothing that doesn't flow from a basic understanding of human psychology.

Now, were the Qu'ran to report Avagadro's number, or given the age of the earth to be 6 billion years old (you still have a young earth), I might be impressed.

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]We are not the only creature of GOD. If what you say is true why only humans reflects their creator. Why only humans are created in the Image of GOD. Didn't you ask yourself this Question?

True, but I would say that all creatures reflect the creator whether or not they are created specifically in the image of God. For me being created in the image of God means I am a triune being that requires love to be happy and fulfilled. Other animals and lifeforms, however, seem to have been created specifically for man because he cares for us as where man was created specifically to have relationship with God. Despite this, however, animals also seem to be social creatures as we are and need relationships and ways to relate to each other as we do. It is all part of the grande design.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
[b]Was it known that every creature is created from water.

You are reading into this. Life probably did evolve in the sea but, bearing in mind the absolute necessity of water for life, this is hardly a startling revelation.


Was it known that the earth and heavens were one unit and spreaded apart by force.

I don't even know what f the earth to be 6 billion years old (you still have a young earth), I might be impressed.[/b]

What you say is the one that doesn't make sense for a very many reason:

1- Quran is not a scientific book to give you every scientific fact you know today. Asking is Avogadro Number is there is non sense. Some scientific notes are given in some parts in the Quran asking you to think about in order to belive. If you didn't think about it, or didn't belive, it is not a big deal.

2- You didn't read the Quran, I doute you did, for at least once. You cann't judge a complete Book from one or two verses. That is if you say that they really known by other civilizations or could be concoluded.

But of course as GOD doesn't exist why bother yourself. You never think about the other possibility that you might be wrong. Is GOD existance Impossible?

3- Where in Quran it say that the Earth age is less than 6 billion years (or any number you claim). Tell me the age of the earth as you can see it from your Quran if you so sure? Is the age of the earth 6 billions, you might be wrong!!!!!

Questions: I hope you can find an error in Quran. My GOD told me that no one will be able to find any error. As far as I know for 1400 years now, no error found. If you managed to find any error then you will solve this problem. Simple , isn't it? If you managed to find it and prove it there will be no Mulims!!!!

Originally posted by ahosyney
You changed your last Question!!!!

Any way.

What do you mean by GOD of love?

GOD is your creator. That is enough reason to worship him without asking a return. Because he is the reason of your existance. What relate you to him is he created you. That means you are the one who should love him, and follow what he wants you to do. Because he knows wha ...[text shortened]... read the Quran. Try to read it if you didn't may be you will find an answer to your questions?

To answer your question I have never read the Quran. Even if I did, however, according to you I need to learn Arabic before I even bother but I do not know how to read Arabic.

I am glad you asked the question about love. It is why I am a Christian. When I say that God is love, I am referring to such scripture as 1 John 4:7 "Beloved let us love one another, for love is of God, and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. He that loveth not, knoweth not God for God is love." To tell you what exactly love is I will refer you to 1 Corinthians 13:4 which says, "Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant. Does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered. Does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with truth. Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails...." I think the first verse sums it up best, "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I am nothing." So there you have it.

If you don't believe me perhaps you will listen to the man you claim is a prophet of Allah. Christ also said that love is necessary in Luke 10:25 it says, "And, behold, a cetain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it? And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and love your neighbor as yourself. And he said to him, "You have answered right; this do, and you will have life." But he, still willing to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Christ goes on to give the example of the Good Samaritan. Reading the story may not give you a very good understanding as to what he was actually saying, however. This is because the Good Samaritan was the last person that should have offered to help the man in need. You see Samaritans and the Jews did not cohabitate together and did not like each other. The man should have been helped by his other so called brothers but they simply turned their heads and continued on. Instead he was helped by the man who should have been his natural enemy. It would be like a member of Hamas stopping by the road side to help a Zionist Jew as other Zionist Jews simply passed by and turned their heads. Crazy huh? It coincides with Matthew 5:43 which says, "You have heard it that is has been said, you will love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies, blees them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward do you have? Do not even sinners do the same....Therefore, be perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

So I have answered the question as to what loving your neigbor is as well as a broad definition of love and that it is required to inherit the kingdom of God by Christs own admission. However, what does it mean to love God? 1 John 5:3 says, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome." You see many people try to serve God by doing things strickly out of fear of damnation. They completly overlook the relationship that God really desires to have with humanity. If God so chose he could strike any one of us down for sinning. Why does'nt he? Does sin not bother him? Why did he not kill off Adam and Eve and be done with humanity. Either he does not have the power to do so or sin does not bother him, no? The answer is that he loves man while at the same time hates the sin that man commits. To better illustrate what I am saying I will ask you this question. In a loving relationship what is the one thing that you try to do such as your wife? Do you not try to please her? And if she loves you will she not likewise try to please you? This is the same kind of relationship God wants with us. Although pleasing him may be difficult at times, it is never burdensome. We are merely following our heart. God does not desire a relationship based strickly upon fear and dread. God wants us to tap into our innate need for love and to be loved. I think Matthew 22:40 sums it up when Chrsit was talking about loving God and your neighbor as yourself. "On these these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." In other words, love is the completion of the law. If you love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself, what sin are you going to commit? 1 John 15:13 says, "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." This is what Christ did for us. It also says that we choose to love God because he first loved us.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Questions: I hope you can find an error in Quran. My GOD told me that no one will be able to find any error. As far as I know for 1400 years now, no error found. If you managed to find any error then you will solve this problem. Simple , isn't it? If you managed to find it and prove it there will be no Mulims!!!!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Now that I've found your source, I will take a crack at it. Not because I don't
want any muslims left, but because I love a good challenge. I realise that
the translations are not equal to the original text in arabic, but I'm sure it
will be pointed out to me when the translation is wrong.

Let the fun begin. See you in a few weeks. 🙂

Addition:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/001.qmt.html

That's chapter 1!? Hmm, maybe I'll be back in a few hours. 😀

Addition:

Or not. 😕

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

Addition:

Hmm, maybe this site is not the most trustworthy after all:

"Though they were originally Muslims, they had swerved from the real
Islam and made innovations and alterations in it and had fallen victims
to hair splitting and sectarianism. They had forgotten and forsaken Allah
and begun to serve mammon. So much so that they had even given up
their original name "Muslim" and adopted the name "Jew" instead, and
made religion the sole monopoly of the children of Israel."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau2.html#S2

Originally posted by ahosyney

Is love the only important issue in human life? Most of our actions are based on desires inside us. Love is one of them, but not all of them. Human desire food, as well. And it sometimes more important than love. Does this reflects GOD too?

Did you ask yourself why GOD created you?[/b]

As far as the need for food and the need for love, I would say that the Bible is correct when it states that ALL good things come from God. Therefore, food is a loving gesture to sustain our being just as he sent down manna to feed the children of Israel in the wilderness. As far as why God created us, it is apparent to me that he did so to relate to us in some way. It says that we were created for his pleasure. Either that or we are merely rats in a cage jumping through hoops. In such a scenerio I think it would matter little what I did. I would simply be prodded to do as he wishes. You see love demands free will. Can you have a loving relationship without free will? Can you force someone to love you? This is why we have free will as did Adam and Eve.

Originally posted by stocken
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Now that I've found your source, I will take a crack at it. Not because I don't
want any muslims left, but because I love a good challenge. I realise that
the translations are not equal to the original text in arabic, but I'm sure it
will be pointed out to me when the translation is wrong.

Let the fun begin. See he children of Israel."[/i]

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau2.html#S2

I didn't get it: Is your crack comming , or I have to search for it in your post 🙂

Note: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Is not the only source of course. It just has three translations, I thougth it is a good idea to use it

Originally posted by ahosyney
I didn't get it: Is your crack comming , or I have to search for it in your post 🙂

[b]Note: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Is not the only source of course. It just has three translations, I thougth it is a good idea to use it[/b]

These things take time. You'll have to wait for sure. 🙂