30 Oct 07
Originally posted by SourJaxWhere did you arrive at this conclusion about what you call 'false religions'. I think it is a ridiculous thing to say about any religion that they think they can save themselves.
....Many religions stress works, all this does is states that you can save yourself form yourself. Its a less pronounced self-godhood, that is common in all false religions.
Bear this in mind ... Christ stressed works, so if a religion stresses works I would think that they are likely to find favour with Christ. On the other hand Paul stressed faith, so religions that stress faith are likely to find favour with Paul (Im not sure what good that is).
The parable of the Good Samaritan was a response to two questions about 'how can I get salvation' and 'who is my neighbour'. The choice of the 3 actors in that parable was no accident. A total stranger to Christ was chosen as the good one (who obviously will get salvation) that had the good heart to apply the 'love they neighbour' rule. The other two, a priest and a Levite, who knew the law failed to apply it.
Read what Christ said friend ... its mostly about works.
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by Rajk999It cant be that simple. If I have faith in the Devil will I find favor with Paul? Surely both of them were also concerned about what works or who to have faith in?
Bear this in mind ... Christ stressed works, so if a religion stresses works I would think that they are likely to find favour with Christ. On the other hand Paul stressed faith, so religions that stress faith are likely to find favour with Paul (Im not sure what good that is).
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadIts not that simple, I agree. Both Christ and Paul spoke of both faith and works, and there is no doubt that both are important and the most likely candidate for salvation is one with both faith and works. Unfortunately many choose to interpret certain statements of Paul to mean that you cannot loose your salvation once you accept Christ.
It cant be that simple. If I have faith in the Devil will I find favor with Paul? Surely both of them were also concerned about what works or who to have faith in?
30 Oct 07
1 edit
Originally posted by telerionLet me get this right. God is the creator af all things. All meaning everything. no?
God is not the source of evil nor is he the source of sour. You see just as evil is the absence of good so to sour is the absence of sweetness*.
* - English nazi's: Do not confuse sour and bitter. Bitter is the absence of unbitterness.
Oh and SourJax didn't answer my question.
If someone has a mental illness or is otherwise infirm of mind, eg denied christ etc etc through illness are they no longer saved?
30 Oct 07
@Rajk999
If you'll read my other posts you should be able to see what I meant as far as works vs. faith. You are correct in saying that Jesus stressed the importance of works, but Jesus also stressed that works can not save you. Only the work of the Christ on the execution stake can save you.
@snowinscotland
A person that has a mental illness does not have the capacity to accept/deny God, thus they are not held accountable. God knows your heart, God knew whether you'd accept him or reject him, before he ever spoke "Let there be light."
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by SourJaxSo
@Rajk999
If you'll read my other posts you should be able to see what I meant as far as works vs. faith. You are correct in saying that Jesus stressed the importance of works, but Jesus also stressed that works can not save you. Only the work of the Christ on the execution stake can save you.
@snowinscotland
A person that has a mental illness doe ...[text shortened]... God knew whether you'd accept him or reject him, before he ever spoke "Let there be light."
1. Jesus stressed works (meaning that works is essential for salvation)
2. Jeses stressed that works cannot save you.
Its either Jesus is a madman or you are.
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by SourJaxit is all pre-determined then?
@snowinscotland
A person that has a mental illness does not have the capacity to accept/deny God, thus they are not held accountable. God knows your heart, God knew whether you'd accept him or reject him, before he ever spoke "Let there be light."
what about, since it is clearly insane not to want to go to heaven, that an adult who does not want to go to heaven = saved, since they are insane?
also what about those too young? what happens to them?
30 Oct 07
Originally posted by PinkFloydPrecisely!
I know, I know--it's like the old "do we jave free will, or is God all-knowing and we're just robots" argument. Been done to death. Still, I recently heard the best argument ever in favor of the premise:
Since God promised "eternal" life to believers, then to take that away from one who backslides, falls away, or whatever term you choose for not liv ...[text shortened]... g of "eternal"? And since God does not lie, eternal life must BE truly eternal, right?
31 Oct 07
Originally posted by snowinscotlandPredetermined? No, you still have to make the choice God simply knows the choice you're going to make.
it is all pre-determined then?
what about, since it is clearly insane not to want to go to heaven, that an adult who does not want to go to heaven = saved, since they are insane?
also what about those too young? what happens to them?
Those to young to make a choice or those that are not mentally capable of making that choice (i.e. not capable of weighing the consequences of the choices made) are not held accountable for their choices.
Salvation is a lot more complicated than most want it to be. Jesus' work on the execution stake, fortunately takes care of all of the complication.
31 Oct 07
Originally posted by Rajk999Why? 1. and 2. do not contradict each other.
So
1. Jesus stressed works (meaning that works is essential for salvation)
2. Jeses stressed that works cannot save you.
Its either Jesus is a madman or you are.
For example
1. Walking to work is essential to perform your job.
2. Walking will not give you a job.
Also your interpretation that 'Jesus stressed works' is equivalent to 'works are essential for salvation' is a bit far fetched.
31 Oct 07
Originally posted by SourJaxand the insane not to want to go to heaven bit?
Predetermined? No, you still have to make the choice God simply knows the choice you're going to make.
Those to young to make a choice or those that are not mentally capable of making that choice (i.e. not capable of weighing the consequences of the choices made) are not held accountable for their choices.
Salvation is a lot more complicated than most ...[text shortened]... to be. Jesus' work on the execution stake, fortunately takes care of all of the complication.
31 Oct 07
Originally posted by snowinscotlandJust because someone doesn't want to go to heaven doesn't mean they are insane. Some people have some ideas that we would consider crazy but that doesn't mean that those people are truly insane (or mentally incapable of make that choice of "life/heaven or death/hell"😉.
and the insane not to want to go to heaven bit?
It all goes back to the question of that person's actual mental capacity to weigh the risks and rewards of their choices.