Originally posted by chaney3
My replies will probably sound forced in the direction of the Trinity glimpsed on in the Old Testament.
Sonship, when Jesus prayed to God in the garden......asking if this cup could be passed, meaning death......isn't it a very logical conclusion that Jesus was praying to 'someone else'?
Yes. Very logical.
There are just too many times in the quotes of Jesus, that He is clearly speaking about the 'Father' as a completely different 'person'.
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Yes. There are many passages revealing the "twoness" of the Father and the Son. And there are passages revealing the "oneness" of the Father and the Son.
As a lover of this
"Wonderful" Person, I reserve the right to believe both. And I trust the God who has spoken both.
I am not a Bible scholar, and don't know the full reason WHY the people 1500 years ago decided to claim that Jesus must be God.
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Further back than 1,500 years the prophet Isaiah prophesied that a
child ... born would be called
"Mighty God" and a
"Son ... given" is to be called
"Eternal Father".
You don't have to use the excuse of not being a Bible scholar. You only need to read
Isaiah 9:6 and hopefully do some praying to God concerning it.
Just read the Bible aloud with a fully opened heart and a willingness to be changed by God. And see what the Holy Spirit would impress upon you. Reading accompanied with thanksgiving and confession of your known sins is effective.
God is not REAL to many people because of the separation between them and God involving confessed sins
...there seems to be politics and power involved.....the same as today's politics.....but, the overwhelming proof seems to lie in the fact that Jesus was God's Son ONLY. He called God the Father so many times in the Bible, that it almost seems impossible to believe that Jesus was talking to himself?
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There was definitely politics involved in some important church councils. But
Isaiah 8:6 was a mysterious passage there in Scripture before politics played any part in what Christians decided to coin as phrases.
So you can see that
Isaiah 9:6 it is very mysterious. But if you think on the matter just a bit we are talking about a Life which is unlimited - and Eternal Person. We are dealing with One who is the very of all being.
The universe itself testifies His unlimited power and His divine nature. I think. Would it not be typical that there is something about GOD which is so far transcendent to us that we have to take it on faith ?
You see I don't think ANYONE wanting to invent a new religion would deliberately come up with something SO perplexing as the Trinity. It tickles me when people assume that some fellows deliberately concocted such a mind boggling matter.
No, chaney3, the Triune God must be Life beyond what we are able to conceive. But .... BUT ... we can know Him, fellowship with Him and enjoy Him.
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (2 Cor. 13:14)
This passage is not about systematized theology. It is about experience, about communion and enjoyment. The Trinity is for our experience.
Have you read checkbaiter's link? The 20 reasons that the trinity is not true?
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I may get a chance to offer 20 responses.
There just seems to be too much evidence that the trinity does NOT make any sense at all.
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I witnessed both of my children be born. The event astounded me. I simply could not understand how really another human being like me and my wife came out of my wife's body. But it is true. And we know SOMETHING about it.
Now we are dealing with God Himself - the Ultimate Divine and Eternal Living One - a Life beyond limitation.
There may be some things about God which everything in us wants to say
"But ... that's IMPOSSIBLE!"
He is
"Wonderful" - full of wonder
(Isaiah 9:6).