not faith nor works actually

"you wont be LOLing much after 98 billion years of the same people and the same ef'ing jokes."

Are you serious? Maybe nothing anyone can say to you will make you feel different about life and that is a very sad thing to say but you are who you are no matter how miserible you sound or actually may be.
Yes this life as we know it is not always good and sometimes death is a way out but this is not the life that God is promissing us in the future. We may even die before that time gets here but he promisses thru a resurrection that we will some day be there.
Do you get tired of food and eating and learning what's out there to taste? Do you get tired of sunsets and sunrises? Do you look forward to seeing loved ones you haven't seen in years? Do you get tired of travel and seeing things you've never seen? Get tired of music or do you have every instrument known to man learned? Have you built all the dream houses you've ever thought of yet? Will there be nothing else to invent or improve?
Geeeez, we've only scratched the surface and you aren't interested?????

Originally posted by knightmeister
What's really missing from the faith versus works debate between rajk99 and myself and others is an understanding that it is not faith nor works that saves anyone.

What I find missing in these debates is the catch 22 that Jesus sets up. His message is one of selflessness. Yet obtaining eternal life is an entirely selfish motive. So how does one pursue a selfish goal in a selfless way?

Originally posted by twhitehead
What I find missing in these debates is the catch 22 that Jesus sets up. His message is one of selflessness. Yet obtaining eternal life is an entirely selfish motive. So how does one pursue a selfish goal in a selfless way?

According to the Christian religion, "eternal life" (unison with G-d at last) is the ultimate purpose of the existence of the human beings. Check, for example, Psalms 23:4 and 23:6, 1 Cor. 15:54-57 and 2 Cor. 5:8, Romans 8:38-39, Revelation 2:11, Philippians 1:22-23 etc. -all these verses point out that the key is the Grace of G-d and faith and works (faith and works in unison, hence the techniques required for the cultivation of selflessness, love etc.).

Methinks this idea is crystal clear at John 14 1:3 –it goes like this:
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
In this context, “selfish” is the one who lacks the quality of faith. Therefore the “unbeliever” is considered “selfish”, and “selflessness” is considered a state of an entirely not selfish attitude (which, thanks to G-d’s Grace and thanks to faith and good works together) drives the believer towards "eternal life in unison with G-d", towards the purpose that he is "created" to fulfill, that is
😵

Originally posted by galveston75
"you wont be LOLing much after 98 billion years of the same people and the same ef'ing jokes."

Are you serious? Maybe nothing anyone can say to you will make you feel different about life and that is a very sad thing to say but you are who you are no matter how miserible you sound or actually may be.
Yes this life as we know it is not always good a t or improve?
Geeeez, we've only scratched the surface and you aren't interested?????

i think you are failing to comprehend just how long eternity is. you could do everything that has been done and hasnt been done a 1000 billion googolplex times and it wouldnt even begin to scratch the surface. you could have every conversation with every person, eat every food, build every house, listen to every song, play every instrument more times than the whole of humanity has already done to date 800 trillion times over and you would still have eternity stretching out before you.

as ive said before read any book or watch any film, people who desire eternity are usually greedy megalomaniacs and people who have eternity have normally gone mad.

to take away death and more importantly the relevance of time is to take away one of the most important things that makes us human.

Why did Jesus have to die to save us. Why couldn't he stay alive and save us.

It is such an awkward nonsensical premise that is just accepted, that Jesus died for our sins. Why couldn't he stay alive and cleanse us of our sins. Why do we need his blood. Why do we have to washed in the blood. After all, seems like a metaphor anyway.

I guess just because it was said so.

Originally posted by twhitehead
What I find missing in these debates is the catch 22 that Jesus sets up. His message is one of selflessness. Yet obtaining eternal life is an entirely selfish motive. So how does one pursue a selfish goal in a selfless way?

His message was actually one of love. He said we should love others AS we love ourselves - therefore if we do not love ourselves then we cannot love others effectively.

Observation of life tells us that those who do not value or love themselves tend to be more self absorbed than most.

I don't think the pursuit of eternal life is "selfish" - it is an act of self love. That's different.

However , the question you have asked is very interesting and has a depth to it. It asks a question about motivation and the heart of the believer. This is why I think it's important that eternal life is assured and a gift of grace from God - because this allows one to love others selflessly without concern about "getting " salvation , thus bypassing this particular problem.

God does not really set up a catch22 because he offers us His love and His Spirit freely. All we have to do is receive it. Therefore we love others out of this love. God gives us His love to share with other people. Selflessness emerges because eternal life has already been gifted to us.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i think you are failing to comprehend just how long eternity is. you could do everything that has been done and hasnt been done a 1000 billion googolplex times and it wouldnt even begin to scratch the surface. you could have every conversation with every person, eat every food, build every house, listen to every song, play every instrument more times th ...[text shortened]... ntly the relevance of time is to take away one of the most important things that makes us human.

No you are wrong as your taking away what makes us human and that is our incredible mind that will never get tired of life.
And the God that not only made us but has created all that you see when you look up at night into the sky and can see only a dot of what's out there to learn.
I think you have no love for life in your heart and that is a very sad thing. Such a sad state of mind to live in I would guess.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
thats just a series of words, how do they apply to a functional real life eternity?

where is your indescribable love coming from and how will it keep you engaged forever? try describing it. joy? joy in what, what joys will last forever? peace sounds good but without anything to juxtapose it against peace looses all meaning, the same for joy and anyth ...[text shortened]...

you wont be LOLing much after 98 billion years of the same people and the same ef'ing jokes.

thats just a series of words, how do they apply to a functional real life eternity?

where is your indescribable love coming from and how will it keep you engaged forever?

---------------stellspalfie--------------------------


Excellent questions!!!!

The indescribable love comes from God of course and will keep us engaged because there is no end to it. I know of Christians who have had foretastes of Heaven and describe it as "incredible" with a look in their eye that is just awesome and you just know they have experienced something other worldly.

One Christian described being filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit and experiencing ecstasy and love. However , what made the experience so awesome for him was the awareness that this was just a drop in the ocean of what God could give him.

Originally posted by galveston75
No you are wrong as your taking away what makes us human and that is our incredible mind that will never get tired of life.
And the God that not only made us but has created all that you see when you look up at night into the sky and can see only a dot of what's out there to learn.
I think you have no love for life in your heart and that is a very sad thing. Such a sad state of mind to live in I would guess.

you really do not understand eternity.

if you could see everything!! every molecule, every particle that has every been, you wouldnt even be close to eternity.

if i locked you in a box for 50 years would your human mind entertain you? no! it would last for about 7 days before it fell apart. phrases like "never get tired" shows you dont get it............eternity is so huge......everything that could happen, could happen, over and over again, every possiblitly of every thing would be reapeted to the point where everything that could and would happen has happend then has been repeated an infinite amount of times and still wouldnt be infinity. ther is no end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i get the feeling that you think - what does my faith dictate i should say, rather than sitting and really thinking about the gigantic concepts you are dealing with.

try it this way - how would your current life operate if there was no such thing as universal time and clocks. how would society work?

Originally posted by black beetle
According to the Christian religion, "eternal life" (unison with G-d at last) is the ultimate purpose of the existence of the human beings. Check, for example, Psalms 23:4 and 23:6, 1 Cor. 15:54-57 and 2 Cor. 5:8, Romans 8:38-39, Revelation 2:11, Philippians 1:22-23 etc. -all these verses point out that the key is the Grace of G-d and faith and works ( ...[text shortened]... fe in unison with G-d", towards the purpose that he is "created" to fulfill, that is
😵

A side note:
God created this universe and all in it in 6 days, what He is working on now
He has been working on for thousands of years.

It has not entered into the heart of man what is coming, yet some here
blow it off, their loss.
Kelly

Originally posted by knightmeister
thats just a series of words, how do they apply to a functional real life eternity?

where is your indescribable love coming from and how will it keep you engaged forever?

---------------stellspalfie--------------------------


Excellent questions!!!!

The indescribable love comes from God of course and will keep us engaged because there is e for him was the awareness that this was just a drop in the ocean of what God could give him.

"love" is a very vague word. my wife loves me, she shows it in the physical world by being, nice,caring and intimate with me. what does gods love consist of, im sick of christians using the word "love" like its an abstract feeling that has no context, it makes gods love sound like heroin.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you really do not understand eternity.

if you could see everything!! every molecule, every particle that has every been, you wouldnt even be close to eternity.

if i locked you in a box for 50 years would your human mind entertain you? no! it would last for about 7 days before it fell apart. phrases like "never get tired" shows you dont get it.... ...[text shortened]... life operate if there was no such thing as universal time and clocks. how would society work?

When thinking about the eternal there are a lot of things that are hard to
wrap one's brains around, like music without time...what would it be like?
Kelly

Originally posted by knightmeister
What's really missing from the faith versus works debate between rajk99 and myself and others is an understanding that it is not faith nor works that saves anyone.

This might sound silly and preposterous at first but think about it. It's actually GOD who saves. If God does not save us then no amount of faith or works or anything can help. Salvation ...[text shortened]... t path to understanding something important.

Let's see how far you will go with this one.

I agree God's grace, God's mercy, God calling us while we were yet sinners,
Jesus dying for us while we were yet sinners. It is God who first loved us,
not us who made God do anything.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I agree God's grace, God's mercy, God calling us while we were yet sinners,
Jesus dying for us while we were yet sinners. It is God who first loved us,
not us who made God do anything.
Kelly

why did adam sin?

Originally posted by galveston75
Ephesians 2:8-10
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)

8 You have been saved by God's love and kindness because you believed. It was not because of anything you did, but it was a gift from God.

9 You were not saved by trying to do what the law says. So no one can be proud about it.

10 God has made us. In Jesus Christ God made us so that we can do good things. He planned that we should live that way.

This is pretty clear....

What is this translation, the six-year-old's Bible?