Originally posted by twhitehead I disagree. I think a lot of people do acts of compassion simply because they think it is the right thing to do. They do not knowingly include the need to feel righteous in the decision. I do think that you are right about some people, and that some people do good simply to buy their way into heaven.
If you saw a child fall over in the middle of the st ...[text shortened]... d a car is coming, would you rescue the child in order to feel righteous or good about yourself?
I'd do it because I would feel terrible about myself afterwards if I didn't. That's what "the right thing to do" comes down to. You will hate yourself if you don't do it. You'll be miserable.
Originally posted by pawnhandler Um, why not just save the child because the child needs to be saved? Why not help people because they need it and you happen to be able to at that point in your life?
You can certainly do that. But, either consciously or sub-consciously, chemically in your brain you are doing it because it makes you happy to think that you did save someone. It releases endorphines and gives you that natural high.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung I'd do it because I would feel terrible about myself afterwards if I didn't. That's what "the right thing to do" comes down to. You will hate yourself if you don't do it. You'll be miserable.
It's all unconcious though.
If it is unconscious then how do you know it is taking place? I simply don't believe that every one of my compassionate actions can be directly attributed to some perceived benefit to myself - and I don't think you can show that they are.
And why are you so sure that it is the case in the first place?
Originally posted by twhitehead If it is unconscious then how do you know it is taking place? I simply don't believe that every one of my compassionate actions can be directly attributed to some perceived benefit to myself - and I don't think you can show that they are.
And why are you so sure that it is the case in the first place?
The fact that you are referencing your actions and categorizing them as compassionate is proof enough.
Originally posted by twhitehead Proof of what? I don't understand.
Saying that your actions are compassionate is proof that you were at least subconsciously aware (if not entirely conscious) that those actions were compassionate which is why you did them. Your moral values probably dictate that doing compassionate things is right and good, so you did them to be right and good and they at least help you to sleep better at night if not make you feel righteous when posting about them in a forum.
You did those actions under self-serving motives to be pleased with yourself, probably to make up for feeling guilty about some wrong you've done in your life.
I'm not trying to be abrasive, just trying to make a point.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung I'm always bashing religion - especially Christianity and to a lesser extent Islam. I know about Benny Hinn the Healer, the Inquisition, Muslim terrorists, bla bla bla.
Tell me some nice stuff. Give me the other side.
You really need to be told the "good stuff" you are out there now
aren't you? You have had that "bad stuff" shoved down your throat for
so long you lost anything good? You may if you wish focus upon the
negative human nature has a way of painting anything it does not like
with such a bad brush it fails to see anything but the bad.
Kelly
Originally posted by brobluto Your moral values probably dictate that doing compassionate things is right and good, so you did them to be right and good and they at least help you to sleep better at night if not make you feel righteous when posting about them in a forum.
Knowing that what I am doing is right and doing it to make myself sleep better at night are two very different things. You are drawing totally unfounded conclusions.
You did those actions under self-serving motives to be pleased with yourself, probably to make up for feeling guilty about some wrong you've done in your life. And now you are just going way off on a limb making unsubstantiated guesses.
Now tell me why I would 'feel guilty' about doing something wrong? How is that self serving?
I'm not trying to be abrasive, just trying to make a point. You are trying to prove a point without actually providing a proof.
Originally posted by KellyJay You really need to be told the "good stuff" you are out there now
aren't you? You have had that "bad stuff" shoved down your throat for
so long you lost anything good? You may if you wish focus upon the
negative human nature has a way of painting anything it does not like
with such a bad brush it fails to see anything but the bad.
Kelly
Interesting how all the theists are finding it impossible to come up with anything good from religion.
Originally posted by twhitehead Knowing that what I am doing is right and doing it to make myself sleep better at night are two very different things. You are drawing totally unfounded conclusions.
[b]You did those actions under self-serving motives to be pleased with yourself, probably to make up for feeling guilty about some wrong you've done in your life. And now you are jus ...[text shortened]... ng to make a point.[/b]
You are trying to prove a point without actually providing a proof.[/b]
Fine, you tell me the difference then. Did you do those "compassionate" acts because you thought they were right, or because you wanted to sleep better at night?
Tell me why you did those actions. Guilt comes in when you don't fully understand the consequences of your actions before doing the act and something you perceive as negative comes of them. It's self-serving to make amends for those negative outcomes by doing something else that you think is right.
I may not be the right person to provide a proof of this. Only you can look into yourself, deep down, and realize why you do the things you do. If they are not to make you happy, then why do them? If you say to make others happy, do you not still get joy from that?
Originally posted by brobluto Fine, you tell me the difference then. Did you do those "compassionate" acts because you thought they were right, or because you wanted to sleep better at night?
Tell me why you did those actions.
Various reasons, not always selfish and not always premeditated. I usually do what I think is right and do not do so simply to make myself happy.
It's self-serving to make amends for those negative outcomes by doing something else that you think is right. But your claim that every time I do something right it is to make amends for something I feel guilty about is ridiculous.
I may not be the right person to provide a proof of this. Only you can look into yourself, deep down, and realize why you do the things you do. Yes you are not the right person, so stop claiming that you know.
If you say to make others happy, do you not still get joy from that? Sometimes I will get joy from them, but that does not prove that that is the reason why I do them.
The problem with your argument is that you acknowledge that I can tell the difference between right and wrong and feel guilty about doing wrong yet simultaneously imply that my decisions are not based on right and wrong but instead on selfish intents.
Originally posted by twhitehead Various reasons, not always selfish and not always premeditated. I usually do what I think is right and do not do so simply to make myself happy.
[b]It's self-serving to make amends for those negative outcomes by doing something else that you think is right. But your claim that every time I do something right it is to make amends for something I ...[text shortened]... eously imply that my decisions are not based on right and wrong but instead on selfish intents.[/b]
Just answer me this: Why would you do something other than what makes you happiest?
Originally posted by dizzyfingers First, some questions, mostly rhetorical:
Why do you think you're always bashing religion?
Why especially Christianity?
If you can give some honest answers to those questions, perhaps you' ll know what motivated you to start this thread to begin with.
I don't know if this is what you had in mind when you asked for 'nice' stuff, but here goes (som strates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Why do you think you're always bashing religion?
Why especially Christianity?
Because organized religion has been quite hostile to me. The Christian Right is highly politically active and are quite authoritarian on social issues. Muslim governments have taken over many countries and are even worse than the Christians as far as authoritarianism goes. And then of course, there's Hussein, bin Laden, etc as examples of how Muslims are part of my life. However the Muslims can be fought off; they're not as sophisticated as Christians. Christians are working the system and need to be opposed via the system, which involves debate and discussion, providing more opportunity and motive for me to verbally discredit the religion.
Some of the offerings I've seen here do not qualify as "nice" to me, but I won't elaborate because I want this thread to be positive.
Originally posted by KellyJay You really need to be told the "good stuff" you are out there now
aren't you? You have had that "bad stuff" shoved down your throat for
so long you lost anything good? You may if you wish focus upon the
negative human nature has a way of painting anything it does not like
with such a bad brush it fails to see anything but the bad.
Kelly
I guess you're unable to provide such stories. That's odd since you're one of the most devoted Christians around. It says something that you take a thread like this and post with hostility.
Nice Stories about Religions
15 Apr '08 05:251 edit
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