Spirituality
18 Jun 06
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by no1marauderanything is "nature exclusive" i.e. has an existence outside of reality.
You might want to go about presenting some evidence that anything is "nature exclusive" i.e. has an existence outside of reality. Otherwise your concept of a "soul" is no more valid than my electricity delivery boys since no one can "show me" they don't exist in a "nature exclusive" way either.
Oh. You mean, like thought or perhaps logic, right? Or, how about justice or righteousness? Do you mean things like these?
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by StarrmanHindsight is grand, ain't it? Prior to our ability to describe the origins of wind, we were stuck with the enigma of it. In full possession of an adequate understanding of its properties, we stick with the ancient description, much like we still use 'sunrise,' and 'sunset.'
'The wind' is the noun we apply to the presentation of these measured effects in nature. 'The wind' is not being claimed as the origin of these presentations, but a terminology describing them.
'The soul' remains unmeasured and cannot be said to be a presentation of anything else, until we define the origin of the desires you speak of. You are not (as ...[text shortened]... gin of these desires is the soul. This is clearly not the same as the case of the wind.
You are attempting to relegate the brain measurements we are able to detect as purely physical in origin, without considering the simple ramifcations thereof.
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by no1marauderAre the measurable impulses inside say a dog's brain attributable to the movements of its soul?
Freaky: Thought is the domain of the soul, (temporarily) transmitted in the locale of the brain. Like the branches of a tree bowing in the wind, the measureable impulses within the brain simply testify to the movement of the soul.
Are the measurable impulses inside say a dog's brain attributable to the movements of its soul?
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
09 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWe still applied the name 'wind' to the effect those pressure changes had on our senses. There is nothing hidden here; before we understood the details of wind, the name wind was a term of reference, now it is a term of definition here. Hindsight has nothing to do with it.
Hindsight is grand, ain't it? Prior to our ability to describe the origins of wind, we were stuck with the enigma of it. In full possession of an adequate understanding of its properties, we stick with the ancient description, much like we still use 'sunrise,' and 'sunset.'
You are attempting to relegate the brain measurements we are able to detect as purely physical in origin, without considering the simple ramifcations thereof.
And what are the ramifications thereof? We detect the brain measurements, we refer to them as electrical activity (which they are) we continue to attempt to measure and redefine them. If we merely say, the soul created them, we say absolutely nothing of worth or detail. In fact we cease to bother asking the questions we should; happy instead to remain in a state of ignorance.
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by StarrmanBy no means am I inferring that we should remain ignorant. Science should always attempt to increase our understanding of creation. That being said, if at all possible to detect using physical instruments, it is but a matter of time before the soul is 'announced' via scientific means. The Bible (again) simply announced it first.
We still applied the name 'wind' to the effect those pressure changes had on our senses. There is nothing hidden here; before we understood the details of wind, the name wind was a term of reference, now it is a term of definition here. Hindsight has nothing to do with it.
And what are the ramifications thereof? We detect the brain measurements, we re ...[text shortened]... ase to bother asking the questions we should; happy instead to remain in a state of ignorance.
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHSo whether we call the origin of electrical impulses 'soul' or not is immaterial. The detail of origin is what we search for. Unfortunately for theists, to locate that origin within the natural world in measureable and empirical format renders the essence of a spiritual notion redundant. What will you say about your 'immortal' soul, when all it becomes is a naturally tied definitory term for consciousness and the origins of thought, unrequiring of the supernatural?
By no means am I inferring that we should remain ignorant. Science should always attempt to increase our understanding of creation. That being said, if at all possible to detect using physical instruments, it is but a matter of time before the soul is 'announced' via scientific means. The Bible (again) simply announced it first.
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by rwingett
Relative.
As a society's beliefs change, their concept of morality will change along with it. Slavery is a prime example. It was once an accepted institution of society (even in the bible), but is now condemned. Times change. Beliefs change. Morals change.
Peace:
Or was it that the Bible was simply wrong?
Roshan
09 Jul 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThis is question begging. You have failed to make even a coherent argument that thought is anything but the result of various electrical activity in the brain of various creatures. You are simply dodging my points regarding invisible electricity deliverers and the existence of a dog's soul (which is a logical corollary of your claim that thought proves the existence of a "soul"😉. Do you ever intend to actually address these issues or do you intend to remain in "holding yer breath until you turn blue" mode?
[b]anything is "nature exclusive" i.e. has an existence outside of reality.
Oh. You mean, like thought or perhaps logic, right? Or, how about justice or righteousness? Do you mean things like these?[/b]
10 Jul 06
Originally posted by StarrmanYou are reducing the cause to what is measured. First mistake.
So whether we call the origin of electrical impulses 'soul' or not is immaterial. The detail of origin is what we search for. Unfortunately for theists, to locate that origin within the natural world in measureable and empirical format renders the essence of a spiritual notion redundant. What will you say about your 'immortal' soul, when all it becomes i ...[text shortened]... finitory term for consciousness and the origins of thought, unrequiring of the supernatural?