Spirituality
02 Apr 11
04 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterYet you suggested that holding a given belief may be 'difficult'. Surely that implies that one must exert deliberate effort towards a desired goal - which to me implies deliberate self delusion.
I accept that I may be deluded but it is not deliberate. I am also aware that I may be allowing myself to be deluded, that is not deliberate either. I have personal reasons why I "believe" in my God; I feel empowered to believe if that can make any sense?
I on the other hand have always maintained belief based on the evidence available. Thus there has never been any difficulty in maintaining my beliefs, whatever they are. If contrary evidence becomes available, my beliefs may change. I will not strive to hold on to them.
05 Apr 11
Originally posted by finneganI don't say atheism "claims" to be more attractive. By attractiveness I mean a natural gravitation of a population towards the most appealing option. Electricity always takes the route of least resistance - same with people so if atheism offers least resistance then why don't more people gravitate to it.
Why do you think Atheism claims to be more attractive than theism? If being attractive was the goal then many people find religion very consoling and it enables them to avoid hard questions or to accept the harsh brutalities of their lives without despair. From the 19th Century debate about the Death of God has been characterized by immense anguish.
But ...[text shortened]... he Christian values that are offered as being superior, it would be a healthier place to debate.
05 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadI can tell you with absolute certainty, that being identified with the name of Jesus Christ is not easy.
Yet you suggested that holding a given belief may be 'difficult'. Surely that implies that one must exert deliberate effort towards a desired goal - which to me implies deliberate self delusion.
I on the other hand have always maintained belief based on the evidence available. Thus there has never been any difficulty in maintaining my beliefs, whatever t ...[text shortened]... trary evidence becomes available, my beliefs may change. I will not strive to hold on to them.
I do not claim to live up to that name, but I assure you that the flak that so called 'fundies' get for being stupidly extreme in doctrine, is nothing compared to standing up in front of your peers and saying 'I want to be identified with Jesus'. I wish I had the courage to do it more often.
05 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterYou clearly live in a country where atheism is not as minority a view as you paint it. Or is everyone else Muslim or Hindu where you live?
I can tell you with absolute certainty, that being identified with the name of Jesus Christ is not easy.
Where I come from, (Zambia) the vast majority of people are Christian and it is atheists who are made to feel uncomfortable. Oddly enough Christians will often readily accept other faiths, even if they are vastly different or even totally contradict their own, yet when it comes to atheists they can be very unaccepting. You often see on these forums people saying atheists are denying God, choose to be atheist, or are otherwise closet theists, yet you never see such sentiments about Muslims or Hindus being closet Christians or having chosen Islam over Christianity.
Here in Cape Town we have a wider mix of religion. At a guess, a quarter Muslim, a quarter Christian and the a few smaller groups and the rest nonreligious (though many would probably not say atheist). I certainly feel a lot less pressure to hide my beliefs - or more accurately, it rarely ever comes up in conversation.
But all of this is irrelevant to what you said earlier about the difficulty of maintaining your faith. If you believe something is true, then how hard it is to stand up and tell other people about it, should only affect how difficult it is to tell other people about it, and you should not describe that as a difficulty in maintaining your belief. If you choose to lie to other people or simply keep silent regarding your beliefs, that wont change your beliefs will it?
I don't always tell people I am atheist due to the social issues that might result, but that doesn't in any way make me doubt my lack of belief in the existence of God.
You said:
...that believing in God is a harder mental position to hold than not believing
Which certainly seems to imply difficulty in justifying your belief to yourself and nothing to do with social pressure.
05 Apr 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo being a Christian is quite easy in the UK; my point was that being identified with Christ can be difficult. There is a difference, but certainly not in terms of physical torture or oppression as in China for instance. Most people I know here are theists or some sort.
You clearly live in a country where atheism is not as minority a view as you paint it. Or is everyone else Muslim or Hindu where you live?
Where I come from, (Zambia) the vast majority of people are Christian and it is atheists who are made to feel uncomfortable. Oddly enough Christians will often readily accept other faiths, even if they are vastly di ...[text shortened]... imply difficulty in justifying your belief to yourself and nothing to do with social pressure.
Btw,I shall be in Zambia next month. I'm more scared of malaria than anything else!
06 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterGood luck, happy holidays.
No being a Christian is quite easy in the UK; my point was that being identified with Christ can be difficult. There is a difference, but certainly not in terms of physical torture or oppression as in China for instance. Most people I know here are theists or some sort.
Btw,I shall be in Zambia next month. I'm more scared of malaria than anything else!
I hope you bring back a few insights to share on the forum-if possible 😀
Have a good one!!
06 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterTake a prophylactic eg maloprim or an equivalent. Sleep under a mosquito net. If you do get feverish, get tested immediately and treated if the test is positive. Malaria is a killer but almost always because of failure to treat it.
I'm more scared of malaria than anything else!
Also the advent of mosquito nets has significantly reduced the frequency of malaria so its not nearly as bad as it was in the past.
Enjoy your time in Zambia.
06 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterThe path of least resistance is believing what the majority of the people around you believe in. This is why religions are distributed geographically around the world. Most people just accept what they are fed (theist, atheist, deist, whatever).
I don't say atheism "claims" to be more attractive. By attractiveness I mean a natural gravitation of a population towards the most appealing option. Electricity always takes the route of least resistance - same with people so if atheism offers least resistance then why don't more people gravitate to it.
If you believe the religion of your parents and the most common one in your country/city, then you should worry whether you didn't take that path because of it being the path of least resistance. Same for politics. If you are of the same party as your parents and friends, then you should think hard why that is so.
10 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterThis is probably due to chess generally being played by intelligent people, and therefore mainly atheists.
Why is it that atheism is so marginalised in global demographics? Apparently one study showed that only 2.5% of the worlds population would describe themselves as atheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
I'm bemused.
Everyday I come here (well most days) to the spirituality forum and find what must be a massive over-representation of at ...[text shortened]... ng post: Theists are deluded seekers of fairy tales.
All following posts: I agree, well said.
If you go to the "I have problems knotting my shoelaces forum" you'll find a lot more religious people.
10 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterYou'd have to renounce capitalism first.
I can tell you with absolute certainty, that being identified with the name of Jesus Christ is not easy.
I do not claim to live up to that name, but I assure you that the flak that so called 'fundies' get for being stupidly extreme in doctrine, is nothing compared to standing up in front of your peers and saying 'I want to be identified with Jesus'. I wish I had the courage to do it more often.