Memorable Conversions

Meh. I'm doing quite well in life so I guess that means I'll always be an atheist and will burn in hell for all eternity because of that.

Unless I'm lucky enough and God grants me colon cancer, my house burns down and two of my children die in a car accident. Then I might find God and go to heaven. Fingers crossed!

" And they sing a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for You were slain and have purchased for God by Your blood men out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth." (Rev. 5:9,10)

We praise God. Christ purchases from every culture to build a kingdom to "reign on earth" - human beings mingled with God.

Originally posted by FMF
That's a horrible story, as are far too many stories coming out of that part of the world.

A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

Originally posted by whodey
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

As I have said to you several times before, if both you and I are wrong, and Islam IS the true and one and only revelation of God, then your personal preference for some other religion other than Islam - such as Christianity, in your case - is surely neither here nor there.

Originally posted by FMF
As I have said to you several times before, if both you and I are wrong, and Islam [b]IS the true and one and only revelation of God, then your personal preference for some other religion other than Islam - such as Christianity, in your case - is surely neither here nor there.[/b]

What does that have to do with the command to kill those who convert to other religions?

Originally posted by whodey
What does that have to do with the command to kill those who convert to other religions?

The command to kill those who convert to other religions is of course grotesque and demented. But in talking to you, I'm talking to a superstitious person who believes in supernatural beings and all that whatnot. You need to remember that I don't find your superstitious stuff about supernatural beings [and all that whatnot ~ rules, rewards, punishments] any more or less believable than the superstitious/supernatural whatnot that Muslims believe.

You, of course, believe that billions of non-Christians being kept in burning agony for eternity is the ultimate "justice" which ~ whichever way you try to spin it ~ is infinitely worse and more morally depraved than thinking that [merely] killing those who convert to other religions is "justice".

Originally posted by FMF
The command to kill those who convert to other religions is of course grotesque and demented. But in talking to you, I'm talking to a superstitious person who believes in supernatural beings and all that whatnot. You need to remember that I don't find your superstitious stuff about supernatural beings [and all that whatnot ~ rules, rewards, punishments] any more ...[text shortened]... depraved than thinking that [merely] killing those who convert to other religions is "justice".

We are talking about people being killed by followers of a religion for converting to another religion.

The fact that I believe in a God and heaven and hell has nothing to do with a compulsion to kill people for believing differently.

Originally posted by whodey
We are talking about people being killed by followers of a religion for converting to another religion.

Yes. It is appalling.

Originally posted by whodey
The fact that I believe in a God and heaven and hell has nothing to do with a compulsion to kill people for believing differently.

You believe that it is "perfect justice" to torture people for believing differently and to do so for eternity. Ideologically speaking, this cannot be said to have "nothing to do with" your condemnation of how certain people [in another religion in competition with yours] feel a divinely inspired "compulsion to kill people for believing differently".

All you are saying is that you think your ghastly and morally incoherent notion of "justice" is better than someone else's ghastly and morally incoherent notion of "justice" and both you and they are citing supernatural and divine justifications for what you believe.

Originally posted by FMF
You believe that it is "perfect justice" to torture people for believing differently and to do so for eternity. Ideologically speaking, this cannot be said to have "nothing to do with" your condemnation of how certain people [in another religion in competition with yours] feel a divinely inspired "compulsion to kill people for believing differently".

All you ...[text shortened]... e" and both you and they are citing supernatural and divine justifications for what you believe.

I am not the judge and jury. What God does is entirely up to him based upon God's judgment. However, these are men who are killing other men in the name of God based upon other people converting to another religion. Christianity has no such mandate.

Originally posted by whodey
I am not the judge and jury. What God does is entirely up to him based upon God's judgment. However, these are men who are killing other men in the name of God based upon other people converting to another religion. Christianity has no such mandate.

I am aware of your grotesque ideology and what you promote as being "justice". But your personal preference for Christianity over Islam is - as I said - neither here or there. While I can simply condemn outright people like ISIS for what they believe is right and for what they do, the waters are much more muddied philosophically when you try to condemn them because you believe in the something much more ghastly and morally abhorrent than simply murdering people.

Originally posted by whodey
...These are men who are killing other men in the name of God based upon other people converting to another religion. Christianity has no such mandate.

I am not claiming that the "mandates" in the two religions are the same. Nobody does. This is simply a red herring. The point is, if both of us are wrong, and Islam IS IN FACT the true revelation of God - and what ISIS does "in the name of God" is what the Abrahamic God wants - then your personal preference for Christianity is of no consequence.

Originally posted by FMF
I am aware of your grotesque ideology and what you promote as being "justice". But your personal preference for Christianity over Islam is - as I said - neither here or there. While I can simply condemn outright people like ISIS for what they believe is right and for what they do, the waters are much more muddied philosophically when you try to condemn them beca ...[text shortened]... u believe in the something much more ghastly and morally abhorrent than simply murdering people.

If they are condemned, they will condemn themselves.

Men will be held accountable for their own actions and I trust that God is wise enough on how to go about that, even murderers like Constantine who claimed to represent Christianity. I condemn no one, including Muslims. That is between them and God.

Now back to the topic at hand, is having an ideology that essentially condones, if not mandate, the execution of people who convert out of Islam a bad thing? What comparable theology gives Christians the right to murder?

Originally posted by FMF
I am not claiming that the "mandates" in the two religions are the same. Nobody does. This is simply a red herring. The point is, if both of us are wrong, and Islam IS IN FACT the true revelation of God - and what ISIS does "in the name of God" is what the Abrahamic God wants - then your personal preference for Christianity is of no consequence.

A red herring? The entire topic of conversation is about religion mandating the murder of innocent people.

Originally posted by FMF
I am aware of your grotesque ideology and what you promote as being "justice". But your personal preference for Christianity over Islam is - as I said - neither here or there. While I can simply condemn outright people like ISIS for what they believe is right and for what they do, the waters are much more muddied philosophically when you try to condemn them beca ...[text shortened]... u believe in the something much more ghastly and morally abhorrent than simply murdering people.

Once again, I am not condemning anyone here, I'm merely pointing to people who do assume the role of judge, jury, and executioner.

Jesus also said he did not come into the world to condemn anyone