As has been pointed out ad nauseam , 'I am that I am ', is not even an accurate translation of the original text. Surely to base any kind of doctrinal matter on a mistranslation of the text will surely lead to wrong conclusions, erroneous inferences and claims that cannot be substantiated. The lunacy of the matter is that anyone that claims, 'I am', must in some way be linked to the divine, or are we to assume that the words, 'I am', somehow take on a magical perspective when used in conjunction with the Christ? Its a nonsense to think so.
18 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobie".., 'I am that I am ', is not even an accurate translation of the original text."
As has been pointed out ad nauseam , 'I am that I am ', is not even an accurate translation of the original text. Surely to base any kind of doctrinal matter on a mistranslation of the text will surely lead to wrong conclusions, erroneous inferences and claims that cannot be substantiated. The lunacy of the matter is that anyone that claims, 'I am' ...[text shortened]... e on a magical perspective when used in conjunction with the Christ? Its a nonsense to think so.
Then what is an accurate translation robbie?
And just for the record, there are no "original text(s)". We have only copies of the original texts. Perhaps you mean original languages?
In the various translations I have at my fingertips the Hebrew in Exodus is translated one of two ways. Either I AM THAT I AM, or, I AM WHO I AM.
From what source of Hebrew manuscript evidence do you contend that the above translation is in error? How should it be translated?
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18 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLast time I questioned you on this topic you were forced to admit :
Yes we are 2awesome, its true.
jw.org - free home Bible studies and all the spiritual food you can eat!馃樀
There are 2 alpha and omegas
You had two gods, Jesus and Jehovah
One of these gods is also an angel and was created by the other God
You had two savours, Jesus and Jehovah
Good stuff.
18 Nov 15
Originally posted by josephwwhy don't you look it up and educate yourself Joseph.
[b]".., 'I am that I am ', is not even an accurate translation of the original text."
Then what is an accurate translation robbie?
And just for the record, there are no "original text(s)". We have only copies of the original texts. Perhaps you mean original languages?
In the various translations I have at my fingertips the Hebrew in Exodus is t ...[text shortened]... ipt evidence do you contend that the above translation is in error? How should it be translated?[/b]
18 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you're going to make a claim about the accuracy of a translation at least have the fortitude and honesty to back it up, otherwise your claim has no meaning other than it just being your opinion.
why don't you look it up and educate yourself Joseph.
After all robbie, it's only one word from the Hebrew. That shouldn't cause you too much trouble. Unless of course you're either too lazy, or intellectually frightened to learn you're wrong! 馃槈
18 Nov 15
2 edits
Originally posted by josephwThere is nothing dishonest about my post, how hard is it to type I am that I am into Google and look up the references? are you so intellectually lazy that you cannot do that?
If you're going to make a claim about the accuracy of a translation at least have the fortitude and honesty to back it up, otherwise your claim has no meaning other than it just being your opinion.
After all robbie, it's only one word from the Hebrew. That shouldn't cause you too much trouble. Unless of course you're either too lazy, or intellectually frightened to learn you're wrong! 馃槈
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am
I Am that I Am (讗侄讛职讬侄讛 讗植砖侄讈专 讗侄讛职讬侄讛, ehyeh ašer ehyeh [eh藞je a藞蕛er eh藞je]) is the common English translation (JPS among others) of the response God used in the Hebrew Bible when Moses asked for his name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Torah. Hayah means "existed" or "was" in Hebrew; "ehyeh" is the first person singular imperfect form and is usually translated in English Bibles as "I will be" (or "I shall be), for example, at Exodus 3:14. Ehyeh asher ehyeh literally translates as "I Will Be What I Will Be", with attendant theological and mystical implications in Jewish tradition. However, in most English Bibles, in particular the King James Version, the phrase is rendered as I am that I am.
how hard can it be for you to do your own research? Now if you have anything other than stupid assertions of dishonesty then i shall be on my way. wah wah wah.
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18 Nov 15
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI do not read or write Hebrew. I can read English translation of Hebrew.
Wouid you say that all these quite independent English versions of Exodus 3:14 are in collusion in some grand conspiracy ? I think that would be unrealistic to assume corroboration in a dishonest way.
New International Version
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
New Living Translation
God replied to Moses, "I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you."
English Standard Version
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
New American Standard Bible
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
King James Bible
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
God replied to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you."
International Standard Version
God replied to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and then said, "Tell the Israelis: 'I AM sent me to you.'"
NET Bible
God said to Moses, "I am that I am." And he said, "You must say this to the Israelites, 'I am has sent me to you.'"
GOD'S WORD® Translation
God answered Moses, "I Am Who I Am. This is what you must say to the people of Israel: 'I Am has sent me to you.'"
JPS Tanakh 1917
And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'
New American Standard 1977
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Jubilee Bible 2000
And God answered unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the sons of Israel: I AM (YHWH) has sent me unto you.
King James 2000 Bible
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shall you say unto the children of Israel, I AM has sent me unto you.
American King James Version
And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.
American Standard Version
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Douay-Rheims Bible
God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.
Darby Bible Translation
And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.
English Revised Version
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Webster's Bible Translation
And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: And he said, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me to you.
World English Bible
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and he said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
Young's Literal Translation
And God saith unto Moses, 'I AM THAT WHICH I AM;' He saith also, 'Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
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18 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWithout quoting a verse per se, I would respond to this.
As has been pointed out ad nauseam , 'I am that I am ', is not even an accurate translation of the original text. Surely to base any kind of doctrinal matter on a mistranslation of the text will surely lead to wrong conclusions, erroneous inferences and claims that cannot be substantiated. The lunacy of the matter is that anyone that claims, 'I am' ...[text shortened]... e on a magical perspective when used in conjunction with the Christ? Its a nonsense to think so.
God - the ever existing and self existing eternal life is actually the one and ONLY "am". As the ground of all being, ONLY God is. Everything else is dependent upon this One.
It is quite appropriate for God to tell us that His IS - the unique existing Being. In a very real sense ONLY He is. We are not.
Well, we are in existence. We exist but we are dependent upon an eternal One Who is self existing and ever existing. Only God IS and we owe any being we have to Him.
This is not only a transcendent truth. It is a very practical one for the Christian. Instead of striving in ourselves it behooves the believer to confess that it is not we who live but Christ who lives in us.
"Lord Jesus, You are and I am not."
To call God and Christ the I AM means He is everything that we need.
Originally posted by sonshipyes you tried this before and as was pointed out its a simple logical fallacy, why? because no one is disputing that the majority of English translations read i am that i am, what the actual claim is that they are not an accurate translation and simply citing them does not even address the point. If you cannot even understand what the point of contention is and address it what hope is there for you jaywill? No one has stated or claimed that there is dishonest corroboration either.
I do not read or write Hebrew. I can read English translation of Hebrew.
Wouid you say that all these quite independent English versions of [b]Exodus 3:14 are in collusion in some grand conspiracy ? I think that would be unrealistic to assume corroboration in a dishonest way.
New International Version[/b]
God said to Moses, "I AM ...[text shortened]... ' He saith also, 'Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
18 Nov 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipThe statement from Exodus 3:14 does not refer to Gods self existence.
Without quoting a verse per se, I would respond to this.
God - the ever existing and self existing eternal life is actually the one and ONLY "am". As the ground of all being, ONLY God is. Everything else is dependent upon this One.
It is quite appropriate for God to tell us that His IS - the unique existing Being. In a very real sense ONLY He ...[text shortened]... I am not."
To call God and Christ the I AM means He is everything that we need.[/b]
With reference to his prehuman existence, Jesus said to unbelieving Jews: “Before Abraham ever was, I Am.” (John 8:58, Jerusalem Bible) Did Jesus thereby identify himself as being Jehovah? Did not God tell Moses, “‘I Am who I Am. This’ he added ‘is what you must say to the sons of Israel: “I Am has sent me to you”’”? (Ex. 3:14, Je) Many translations use the expression “I Am” both at John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14. But do both texts express the same thought?
No. We know that they do not because at Exodus 3:14 the Greek Septuagint Version (the translation that was often quoted by the apostles in the first century C.E.) reads, e·go´ ei·mi´ ho Ohn´, “I am the Being.” This is quite different from the simple use of the words e·go´ ei·mi´ (I am) at John 8:58. The verb ei·mi´, at John 8:58, is evidently in the historical present, as Jesus was speaking about himself in relation to Abraham’s past. Numerous translators indicate this in their renderings. For example, An American Translation reads: “I existed before Abraham was born!”
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18 Nov 15
In Exodus 3:14, Moses (NASB), Moses asked God what His name was. His response was “…I AM WHO I AM…” and, “…Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Actually, “I am” is more properly translated, “I will be.” The point God made to Moses was that, in contrast to the many Egyptian gods, He is the only true God, and He is versatile—able to be and do whatever His people needed. Regarding this verse, the Ryrie Study Bible comments on this elaboration of the name of God in the Old Testament: “…The inner meaning of Yahweh,—‘I am the One who is’—emphasizes God’s dynamic and active self-existence….”
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/gods-namesake-in-action
Originally posted by checkbaiterWhy would god tell Moses that he exists? You don't think that Moses already knew that God exists? The literal translation is 'I will be that I will be' (Geddes) which emphasizes not Gods self existence but what he will prove to be. Either way 'I am that I am', does not even make sense in English never mind in Hebrew and is not an accurate translation. the Rotherham Bible accurately translates the text and it reads,
In Exodus 3:14, Moses (NASB), Moses asked God what His name was. His response was “…I AM WHO I AM…” and, “…Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Actually, “I am” is more properly translated, “I will be.” The point God made to Moses was that, in contrast to the many Egyptian gods, He is the only true God, and He is versati ...[text shortened]... c and active self-existence….”
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/gods-namesake-in-action
Exodus 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please, And he said - Thus, shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you.
This emphasizes Gods ability to fulfill his purposes not his self existence as has been erroneously alleged.
19 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"There is nothing dishonest about my post,.."
There is nothing dishonest about my post, how hard is it to type I am that I am into Google and look up the references? are you so intellectually lazy that you cannot do that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am
I Am that I Am (讗侄讛职讬侄讛 讗植砖侄讈专 讗侄讛职讬侄讛, ehyeh ašer ehyeh [eh藞je a藞蕛er eh藞je]) is the common English translation (JPS among o ...[text shortened]... have anything other than stupid assertions of dishonesty then i shall be on my way. wah wah wah.
I wasn't referring to your post even though it makes little sense.
You know those I.Q. tests where they ask you to identify the object in a group of objects that's different from the rest of the objects?
Every translation I could find renders the verse in question to read "I AM THAT I AM", or, "I AM WHO I AM", or something virtually the same except one.
Now, one would have to be either really stupid, or intellectually dishonest, or maybe completely duped to think that the one that is different from all the rest belongs in the group as a legitimate translation considering the entire history behind our English translations. Not to mention all the thousands of Hebrew scholars throughout the last millennium that render the passage as "I AM THAT I AM".
Except for a small group of uncredentialed offshoots.
Just sayin'.
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19 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHow did you come to that conclusion? Among all these other Gods, I alone am the true God YHWH.
Why would god tell Moses that he exists? You don't think that Moses already knew that God exists? The literal translation is 'I will be that I will be' (Geddes) which emphasizes not Gods self existence but what he will prove to be. Either way 'I am that I am', does not even make sense in English never mind in Hebrew and is not an accurate translation ...[text shortened]... zes Gods ability to fulfill his purposes not his self existence as has been erroneously alleged.
The literal translation is as stated, 'I will be that I will be'. I think He wanted Moses to be clear on this.
19 Nov 15
Originally posted by josephwunworthy of anyones attention
[b]"There is nothing dishonest about my post,.."
I wasn't referring to your post even though it makes little sense.
You know those I.Q. tests where they ask you to identify the object in a group of objects that's different from the rest of the objects?
Every translation I could find renders the verse in question to read "I AM THAT I AM", or, "I ...[text shortened]... ge as "I AM THAT I AM".
Except for a small group of uncredentialed offshoots.
Just sayin'.[/b]