Originally posted by C Hess
Surely, whether or not some absolute truths exist independent of human origins (whatever that means), cannot be determined by poorly translated and filtered set of sheep herder stories? But even if you could argue that case, you still have to own up to the fact that what remains of the original scriptures shows your bible is an ill representation of the origi ...[text shortened]... cannot itself be held up as evidence for its' truth. That would be silly, is what I was saying.

You know what sophistry is.

It shouldn't be too difficult for you to imagine that you're not sure about what truth is. By your own admission. So try to imagine that there is truth which is immutable.

Can't do it? There you have it. You think you have an open mind? If there is absolute truth, and your missing it in your understanding of life, just how much does what you know really mean if it is without immutability?

Doesn't mean much, if anything.

Originally posted by josephw
You know what sophistry is.

It shouldn't be too difficult for you to imagine that you're not sure about what truth is. By your own admission. So try to imagine that there is truth which is immutable.

Can't do it? There you have it. You think you have an open mind? If there is absolute truth, and your missing it in your understanding of life, just how ...[text shortened]... does what you know really mean if it is without immutability?

Doesn't mean much, if anything.

Well, I can tell you what I don't know: I don't know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by C Hess

And while it is true that "there are no known extent (currently existing) original manuscripts of the Bible, the abundance of manuscript copies make it possible to reconstruct the original with virtually complete accuracy."

That's like saying, we have lost the originals, but thanks to the sheer number of copies upon copies made, that only di ...[text shortened]... of the bible does not in fact exist, since her word has been (even if only a little) corrupted.

We believe God did preserve His word in the Holy Bible that we have today. Even in those copies that are missing parts or have small copy errors, nothing in them changes any Christian doctrine. It is not the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law that matters. So it is obvious that God's word has been preserved.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

(Matthew 24:35 King James Version KJV)

Originally posted by C Hess
Well, I can tell you what I don't know: I don't know what you're talking about.

You don't know that you don't know what I'm talking about?

I know.

Originally posted by josephw
So try to imagine that there is truth which is immutable.

Can't do it?

Easy.

All truth is immutable ... unless you have a very twisted idea of truth.

Originally posted by RJHinds
So it is obvious that God's word has been preserved.

I don't see it as obvious at all. Do you believers honestly don't see that you can't use a proposition to prove that same proposition?

Originally posted by josephw
You don't know that you don't know what I'm talking about?

I know.

I can tell you what I don't understand: I don't understand what gave you the idea that I don't know that I don't know what you're talking about.

You probably don't either.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Easy.

[b]All truth is immutable ... unless you have a very twisted idea of truth.[/b]

How so?

The immutability of truth isn't existent dependant upon one's idea of it, whether twisted or not.

Truth is immutable because it is never changing, and exists before, and independently of, our idea of it.

If truth is immutable, as you and I have said, it only follows logically that it has existed eternally, and we are only newcomers learning of it.

And if immutable truth is eternal, then I am of the school of thought that truth is a living being, who is eternal, because truth is know of the truth as it exists in the mind of a living being.

The truth created what exists, i.e. the material universe, and other beings that have the capacity to know and understand the truth.

Originally posted by C Hess
I can tell you what I don't understand: I don't understand what gave you the idea that I don't know that I don't know what you're talking about.

You probably don't either.

It was you that gave me that idea.

Originally posted by josephw
And if immutable truth is eternal, then I am of the school of thought that truth is a living being, ...

"truth is a living being"

what NONSENSE

Originally posted by wolfgang59
"truth is a living being"

what NONSENSE

I already know you think it's nonsense.

It's my goal to persuade you otherwise.

What I would really like to hear you say after you make that claim is what you believe the truth is. If you want to say that God isn't truth, then why don't you follow through with your own idea of what truth is, if you have one.

Why not be honest and merely state that you either don't know what truth is, or that you don't even know or believe there is truth? Why dash in and make the negative proclamation, "what NONSENSE", and then duck away in disgust?

Swing, duck and run. Some of you give up too easily! 😕

Originally posted by C Hess
I don't see it as obvious at all. Do you believers honestly don't see that you can't use a proposition to prove that same proposition?

“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

(John 16:5-15 NKJV)

Perhaps you have never been inspired by the Holy Spirit. That must be why you do not believe.

Originally posted by josephw
I already know you think it's nonsense.

It's my goal to persuade you otherwise.

What I would really like to hear you say after you make that claim is what you believe the truth is. If you want to say that God isn't truth, then why don't you follow through with your own idea of what truth is, if you have one.

Why not be honest and merely state that ...[text shortened]... ENSE", and then duck away in disgust?

Swing, duck and run. Some of you give up too easily! 😕

You are trying to redefine "truth" to fit in with your superstitions.

Saying "truth" is a living being is nonsense.

Truth is the world is not flat, fairies do not exist and I am having roast lamb this evening.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You are trying to redefine "truth" to fit in with your superstitions.

Saying "truth" is a living being is nonsense.

Truth is the world is not flat, fairies do not exist and I am having roast lamb this evening.

And there is a Spaghetti Monster?

Originally posted by RJHinds
[quote] “But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. [b]And when H ...[text shortened]...
Perhaps you have never been inspired by the Holy Spirit. That must be why you do not believe.

What do you mean by: "being inspired by the holy spirit"?