Leaving the OSAS camp

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an o ...[text shortened]... , but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire" in First Corinthians chapter three.[/b]

What a load of bull !! You are a false and a crooked teacher to your core. What does John have to do with it? Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Paul and all the Apostles spoke at length about how ESSENTIAL repentance is.

The more you talk the more those with some basic knowledge of the teachings of Christ will see your true colours .. that you are a crook. You are a follow of some man whose teachings are at odds with the Bible.

Here are the references to repentance in the New Testament. Read the ones from Christ and from Revelation where those who did not repent were cast into the lake of fire:

(Matthew 3:2 KJV) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(Matthew 3:8 KJV) Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

(Matthew 3:11 KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

(Matthew 4:17 KJV) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(Matthew 9:13 KJV) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

(Matthew 11:20 KJV) Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

(Matthew 11:21 KJV) Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

(Matthew 12:41 KJV) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

(Matthew 21:29 KJV) He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

(Matthew 21:32 KJV) For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

(Matthew 27:3 KJV) Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

(Mark 1:4 KJV) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

(Mark 1:15 KJV) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

(Mark 2:17 KJV) When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

(Mark 6:12 KJV) And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

(Luke 3:3 KJV) And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

(Luke 3:8 KJV) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

(Luke 5:32 KJV) I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

(Luke 10:13 KJV) Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

(Luke 11:32 KJV) The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

(Luke 13:3 KJV) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(Luke 13:5 KJV) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(Luke 15:7 KJV) I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

(Luke 15:10 KJV) Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

(Luke 16:30 KJV) And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

(Luke 17:3 KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

(Luke 17:4 KJV) And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

(Luke 24:47 KJV) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

(Acts 2:38 KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(Acts 3:19 KJV) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

(Acts 5:31 KJV) Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

(Acts 8:22 KJV) Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

(Acts 11:18 KJV) When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

(Acts 13:24 KJV) When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

(Acts 17:30 KJV) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

(Acts 19:4 KJV) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

(Acts 20:21 KJV) Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Acts 26:20 KJV) But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

(Romans 2:4 KJV) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

(Romans 11:29 KJV) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

(2 Corinthians 7:8 KJV) For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

(2 Corinthians 7:9 KJV) Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

(2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

(2 Corinthians 12:21 KJV) And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

(2 Timothy 2:25 KJV) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

(Hebrews 6:1 KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

(Hebrews 6:6 KJV) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Hebrews 7:21 KJV) (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec🙂

(Hebrews 12:17 KJV) For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

(2 Peter 3:9 KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

(Revelation 2:5 KJV) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

(Revelation 2:16 KJV) Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

(Revelation 2:21 KJV) And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

(Revelation 2:22 KJV) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

(Revelation 3:3 KJV) Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

(Revelation 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

(Revelation 9:20 KJV) And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

(Revelation 9:21 KJV) Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

(Revelation 16:9 KJV) And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are the one who does not understand. Yes you quote verses to suit what you believe, but you do not understand what you are reading.
Your problem is to try and harmonize those verses which you just mentioned with the ones that clearly say that a born again Christian cannot lose their salvation.
Here are a couple...
Rom 11:29
[b] For the gifts and ...[text shortened]... of Jesus Christ;
NKJV

I am confident that what God has promised he will not fail to do.[/b]

The Bible is saying that there are some who can and will lose their salvation.... stupid.. NOT ME!!

Originally posted by Rajk999
So you dont know who is saved and who is not... obviously.
Then later on you will claim to know who is saved.
Then you will say you believe in once saved always saved.
But someone like sonhouse or me will ask the right question.
Then you will admit that you dont know who is saved and who is saved.
Then later on you will claim to know who is saved.
Then ...[text shortened]... mit that you dont know who is saved and who is saved.

Your entire doctrine is a merrygoround,

Good grief, I've never seen such ignorance. Hmmm, not ignorance, no. Agenda-driven, yes. Pride-driven, yes. Pride is another sin. Did you not know this?

Again, you are caught filling the mouth of your Christian brother with lies, so that others can look and think they came from him.

What does the Bible say about bearing false witness?

Originally posted by FMF
His sarcasm created some variety maybe. As far as this issue goes, speaking as an interested onlooker, I reckon Rajk999 has you beaten in debating terms, while not believing what either of you is saying is actually "true". 😀

The winner of a debate is often not the one speaking truth. A lot of your arguments seem to thrive on 'technicalities'. Technicalities are not truth.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The reason why you 'do not fully understand' is because you are placing the teachings of men above what the Bible says very very clearly. And this 'one exception' business means you are trying to play God. The Bible says nothing about one exception. You are very confused.

Let me help you. Let go of man's doctrine. Let go of what the pastor in your churc ...[text shortened]... ave known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)[/i]

The atheists call this "picking and choosing". Yet they never call you out on it. I wonder why?

Because you're doing their work for them.

Rajk999 has listed an impressive collection of passages that include repentance. I recommend that they all be read.

The fact remains that the Gospel of life which mentions explicitly how man receives eternal life never mentions the word repent but stresses to believe in the Son of God - the Gospel of John.

I do enjoy all the passages Rajk999 listed.
But none of them, not one single one means "repentance" in the sense of self improving of one's behavior in the future so that one should now be compensated for by God with a payment of eternal life.

Not one passage on repentance means for a sinner who is unworthy of eternal life to FIRST improve himself so that he lifts himself up to the position that he is now OWED, as a wage eternal life from God.

(Matthew 3:2 KJV) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Does not say one is given eternal life because of becomming a better person.

(Matthew 3:8 KJV) Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

This does not say the fruit brought forth earns eternal life as a payment.

(Matthew 3:11 KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Though this does stress a change of heart and mind about the way one lived in the past, it does not say self improvement wins for the sinner eternal life.

(Matthew 4:17 KJV) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

It doesn't say God owes eternal life to anyone as payment because of his improvement.

(Matthew 9:13 KJV) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Though sinners are called to repentance, it does not say they earn eternal life because of it.

(Matthew 11:20 KJV) Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Jesus can upbraid a people for not repenting. This doesn't mean that God must pay them eternal life because of improving their behavior.

(Matthew 11:21 KJV) Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

This passage says some societies would have repented had they seen what these towns had seen. It does not say that their improved behavior would be compensated for with the wage of eternal life.

(Matthew 12:41 KJV) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jesus is indeed greater than Jonah. And we are saved because similar to Jonah Jesus died, ws three days in death and rose from the dead. He did this for man's salvation. He is greater than Jonah.

For eternal life we must believe into Him.
The passage does not hold up Nineveh as a society that can purchase eternal life because of improved behavior.

(Matthew 21:29 KJV) He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

This is a good example of having a change of mind about one's past.
It does not say any kind of self improved behavior wins eternal life as a wage.

(Matthew 21:32 KJV) For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

They needed to have a change of heart in order that they may believe. It is believing that will gain them the gift of eternal life. Their repentence does not mean they now have the riches to BUY eternal life as a righteous compensation from God.

The "repentance" Rajk999 has in mind amounts to SELF IMPROVEMENT which removes unworthiness and qualifies one for the payment of eternal life. This is man's idea that he still can do SOMETHING to earn eternal life.

That's enough for tonight to make my point.