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57d
@kellyjay saidCan you give a few examples of things which cannot be known without faith please?
Without faith nothing is accepted as a truth, without truth to reason with, it is all just one big denial making everything unreasonable.
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@kellyjay saidWhat prompted you to seek knowledge? And do you have sufficient faith to know what constitutes knowledge?
You cannot know anything unless you have accepted by faith, some things are true that you believe to be so.
What is knowledge, and how do we know it?
But perhaps, in truth, you are only wanting to discuss your faith in the tree of the knowledge of what is good, and what is evil?
But your faith has you believing that knowing what is good and what is evil is a sin? Am I right? Seeking knowledge is a sin to you, since God commanded to stay away from the tree of knowledge.
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57d
@pettytalk said5 questions.
What prompted you to seek knowledge? And do you have sufficient faith to know what constitutes knowledge?
What is knowledge, and how do we know it?
But perhaps, in truth, you are only wanting to discuss your faith in the tree of the knowledge of what is good, and what is evil?
But your faith has you believing that knowing what is good and what is evil is a sin? Am ...[text shortened]... ght? Seeking knowledge is a sin to you, since God commanded to stay away from the tree of knowledge.
Which one would you like me to address first?
57d
@divegeester saidIn fairness, all 5 were directed at Kelly.
5 questions.
Which one would you like me to address first?
57d
@pettytalk saidYou cannot know anything except through faith, this is true in comprehending the universe! You must have faith that the universe is comprehensible and that you can comprehend it. You cannot know historical facts without the belief that there are historical facts and we can know them. You cannot know anything about science if there isn't faith in the truths you believe you know are based upon facts as you believe them to be. Even to accept that we can do the math and grasp facts about the universe, we must believe that the universe is mathematically intelligible. We have to believe our minds can understand what it is we study, if we didn't have that, what would be the point?
What prompted you to seek knowledge? And do you have sufficient faith to know what constitutes knowledge?
What is knowledge, and how do we know it?
But perhaps, in truth, you are only wanting to discuss your faith in the tree of the knowledge of what is good, and what is evil?
But your faith has you believing that knowing what is good and what is evil is a sin? Am ...[text shortened]... ght? Seeking knowledge is a sin to you, since God commanded to stay away from the tree of knowledge.
Our worldviews create a lens that we use to look at everything, and if that lens is rightly dividing what we are focusing on we will see it clearly, if it's fuzzy, unclear, biased, or in denial we are missing out.
As God created everything, all truth about all things belongs to God, get that wrong, and error follows.
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@kellyjay saidYou have unnecessarily inserted the word faith.
You cannot know anything except through faith, this is true in comprehending the universe! You must have faith that the universe is comprehensible and that you can comprehend it. You cannot know historical facts without the belief that there are historical facts and we can know them. You cannot know anything about science if there isn't faith in the truths you believe you ...[text shortened]... od created everything, all truth about all things belongs to God, get that wrong, and error follows.
Faith isn't knowledge based. Faith is believing something without substantial knowledge. My knowledge doesn't come from faith. It comes from verifiable evidence.
I kind of get what you are trying to say, but 'faith' is entirely the wrong word. (Although I see why you are trying to use it). Perhaps 'confidence' would be a better fit? - I have confidence that the science I have learned is correct, although remain open to future discoveries, corrections.
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@pettytalk saidThe knowledge of good and evil together is not sin, before the knowledge of evil entered into man everything about us and around us was called very good. Evil was to be avoided, with the warning once it was introduced into human existence we die, nothing about goodness carried that warning. The knowledge of good and evil is the contrast between them (knowledge of good AND evil), but to know that contrast both had to be understood clearly. We could have gone on forever without ever touching knowledge of evil, but we touched it, ate it, and made it a part of our very being.
What prompted you to seek knowledge? And do you have sufficient faith to know what constitutes knowledge?
What is knowledge, and how do we know it?
But perhaps, in truth, you are only wanting to discuss your faith in the tree of the knowledge of what is good, and what is evil?
But your faith has you believing that knowing what is good and what is evil is a sin? Am ...[text shortened]... ght? Seeking knowledge is a sin to you, since God commanded to stay away from the tree of knowledge.
57d
1 edit
@ghost-of-a-duke saidEven AI knows better:
You have unnecessarily inserted the word faith.
Faith isn't knowledge based. Faith is believing something without substantial knowledge. My knowledge doesn't come from faith. It comes from verifiable evidence.
I kind of get what you are trying to say, but 'faith' is entirely the wrong word. (Although I see why you are trying to use it). Perhaps 'confidence' wo ...[text shortened]... that the science I have learned is correct, although remain open to future discoveries, corrections.
The word “faith” has a rich etymology that traces back to ancient languages. Let’s explore its origins:
Latin (Fides):
The Latin word “fides” encompasses concepts of trust, faith, confidence, reliance, and belief. It serves as the root for the English word “faith”.
The verb “fidere” in Latin means “to trust”.
This Latin root is derived from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) root “*bheidh-”, which signifies trust, confide, and persuade.
@bigdogg saidThere is no way to start reasoning without beginning with known good reasons. A good starting place has to have accepted (on faith) a strong foundation of how to properly look at life or the universe. Reasoning anything out is more than just grabbing some facts and running the numbers. Before any reasoning can occur judgment calls on faith have to occur, and that has to be done to give the data the proper weight. If you are reasoning by calculating the ends and outs of the data under question, you are giving what you believe to be the proper weight to each thing you are reasoning with, that is starting in faith.
I think it's the opposite.
Knowledge springs from putting faith aside, and giving yourself and fellow smart humans a little credit for being able to slowly figure out how things actually work.
You have to believe what you are basing things on is true to begin with, your starting place in all judgments is foundational to everything you reason with. Data crunching is much more than putting data in a pivot table, the data has to have proper meaning to understand what it is saying and why. If you have nothing you think is worth trusting in, how do you ever get to the point where you can reason anything out, you will forever be saying, we cannot know no matter how fast or slow we go about it.
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@pettytalk saidFive questions, one right after the other? What is this, the Spanish Inquisition ??
What prompted you to seek knowledge? And do you have sufficient faith to know what constitutes knowledge?
What is knowledge, and how do we know it?
But perhaps, in truth, you are only wanting to discuss your faith in the tree of the knowledge of what is good, and what is evil?
But your faith has you believing that knowing what is good and what is evil is a sin? Am ...[text shortened]... ght? Seeking knowledge is a sin to you, since God commanded to stay away from the tree of knowledge.