11 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerCan you give me an example of a doctrinal debate over the Trinity stemming from a conflict of variants ?
I've read some similar commentaries, and they agree that the "variants" are helpful in deducing the original intent. The fact remains though that so many errors in scribing, etc... leads to bickering over things like trinity doctrines, etc...
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11 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999The rest of the world doesn't know squat about American beer as my recent discussions with friends in Germany proved. Hell they don't even know their own beer.
Thats what the rest of the world says about American beer .. its like sex in a canoe ... 😀
If you're talking American beer between prohibition and the 1970's you'd be correct. But since the 70's the number of American breweries rose from a mere 44 to almost 2,000. Now we've got a plethora of world class beer produced by the largest explosion of microbreweries anywhere in the world.
And Rwingett is right. The stuff you're drinking is swill.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by UllrThat's what I'm talkin' about! I'll take a Breakfast Stout from Founders Brewery in Michigan against any beer in the world! USA! USA! USA!
The rest of the world doesn't know squat about American beer as my recent discussions with friends in Germany proved. Hell they don't even know their own beer.
If you're talking American beer between prohibition and the 1970's you'd be correct. But since the 70's the number of American breweries rose from a mere 44 to almost 2,000. Now we've got a plet ...[text shortened]... es anywhere in the world.
And Rwingett is right. The stuff you're drinking is swill.
11 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by UllrHave either you or Rwingett been to Trinidad?
The rest of the world doesn't know squat about American beer as my recent discussions with friends in Germany proved. Hell they don't even know their own beer.
If you're talking American beer between prohibition and the 1970's you'd be correct. But since the 70's the number of American breweries rose from a mere 44 to almost 2,000. Now we've got a plet ...[text shortened]... es anywhere in the world.
And Rwingett is right. The stuff you're drinking is swill.
If not, than you cant really taste local beer.
Beer has a short very shelf life often less than 3 months and tasting Carib (an most lagers for that matter) when it has been exported under hot conditions destroys the taste.
So if neither of you have been here then your opinion of local beer is worth Jack$hit.
I have travelled all over the US and through parts of Europe and the best American beer takes a distant second place to the average European beer, in my opinion. But its all a matter of taste.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by Rajk999You compared it in taste to Corona. I know Corona is swill. If your Trinidad beer is similar to Corona, then it too is swill. If you want to use an alternate descriptor, then I may alter my opinion. If you stand by the comparison then I know all I need to know.
Have either you or Rwingett been to Trinidad?
If not, than you cant really taste local beer.
Beer has a short very shelf life often less than 3 months and tasting Carib (an most lagers for that matter) when it has been exported under hot conditions destroys the taste.
So if neither of you have been here then your opinion of local beer is worth Jack$hit.
...[text shortened]... distant second place to the average European beer, in my opinion. But its all a matter of taste.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by rwingettYou win.
You compared it in taste to Corona. I know Corona is swill. If your Trinidad beer is similar to Corona, then it too is swill. If you want to use an alternate descriptor, then I may alter my opinion. If you stand by the comparison then I know all I need to know.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecer========================
sahidic coptic text vs. greek text vs latin vulgate
sahidic coptic text vs. greek text vs latin vulgate
===========================
That is three translations. I would like to know specifically what disagreement over the Trinity was derived from the variations in these three translations?
I don't know the answer to that question. I thought you might.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywill1. The greek and coptic text do not completely agree
[b]========================
sahidic coptic text vs. greek text vs latin vulgate
===========================
That is three translations. I would like to know specifically what disagreement over the Trinity was derived from the variations in these three translations?
I don't know the answer to that question. I thought you might.[/b]
2. this is further aggravated by disagreements in the translation of coptic and greek texts themselves
3. the latin vulgate contains trinitarian verses that do not appear in either the greek or coptic texts. I think the vulgate may be the least reliable.
Having said that, I believe that there is sufficient biblical content to formulate a trinitarioan theology, and when all else fails we should look to the apostolic tradition of the church. Obviously Thomas the Apostle thought Jesus was God.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerIt is also the case that some apparently "doctrinal" squabbles are at the heart really not about doctrine.
1. The greek and coptic text do not completely agree
2. this is further aggravated by disagreements in the translation of coptic and greek texts themselves
3. the latin vulgate contains trinitarian verses that do not appear in either the greek or coptic texts. I think the vulgate may be the least reliable.
Having said that, I believe that there is suffic ...[text shortened]... ok to the apostolic tradition of the church. Obviously Thomas the Apostle thought Jesus was God.
Doctrine is sometimes an excuse. The root problem is ambition for leadership. Someone does not want to submit to someone else. Someone does not want to "play second fiddle" to someone else.
Someone feels that they are worthy of better things then to follow some teacher or be "under" their teaching. Doctrinenal disagreement then becomes only a surface excuse for a deeper rooted problem of desireing one's own "turf" so to speak.
Now there have been serious doctrinal differences. But I think at times doctrinal differences was only a facade behind ambition for position was the root of the contraversy.
And probably sometimes its a little bit of both.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillabsolutely. Some cases have been legitimate doctrinal differences (Martin Luther), and others have not. John Wesley wasn't booted from the Episcopal church, but the Episcopal church didn't like that he had gathered so much clout among the working class. This lead to the eventual split (after his death), and then again the church of the nazarene split off from the methodists over minor doctrinal differences.
It is also the case that some apparently "doctrinal" squabbles are at the heart really not about doctrine.
Doctrine is sometimes an excuse. The root problem is ambition for leadership. Someone does not want to submit to someone else. Someone does not want to "play second fiddle" to someone else.
Someone feels that they are worthy of better things the ...[text shortened]... was the root of the contraversy.
And probably sometimes its a little bit of both.
The Annabaptists left Germany and became the Amish and Mennonite communities. Their differences were over baptism, and salvation. Europe was riddled with war, and the military stole their livelyhood and trampled their crops. They were further persecuted for their beliefs. The clothing was in response to the oppression by the military. Church history is riddled with this kind nonsense....sad really.
Mark 9:38 John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40 “For he who is not against us is for us. 41 “For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.